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Thread: HB 91: Higher educational institutions; possession of concealed handguns by faculty

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    HB 91: Higher educational institutions; possession of concealed handguns by faculty

    New bill submitted yesterday by Delegate Robert G. Marshall of Manassas. Already some press coverage.

    TFred

    Should Professors Pack Heat?

    HB 91: Higher educational institutions; possession of concealed handguns by faculty members.

    ----------
    HOUSE BILL NO. 91
    Offered January 11, 2012
    Prefiled December 27, 2011

    A BILL to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 23-9.2:3.04,
    relating to possession of concealed handguns by faculty members at public institutions of higher education.
    ----------
    Patron-- Marshall, R.G.
    ----------
    Committee Referral Pending
    ----------

    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

    1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 23-9.2:3.04 as follows:

    § 23-9.2:3.04. Possession of handguns by faculty members.

    A. Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, no board of visitors or other governing body of a public institution of higher education shall adopt or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy, and no appointee, employee, or agent of the institution shall take any administrative action governing the carrying of a concealed handgun on the property of or in buildings owned by the institution by a full-time faculty member of the institution who possesses a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit.

    B. Any rule, regulation, or policy adopted by a board of visitors or governing body of a public institution of higher education prior to July 1, 2012, that would prohibit a full-time faculty member of the institution who possesses a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit from carrying a concealed handgun on the property of or in the buildings owned by the institution is invalid.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    New bill submitted yesterday by Delegate Robert G. Marshall of Manassas. Already some press coverage.

    TFred

    Should Professors Pack Heat?

    HB 91: Higher educational institutions; possession of concealed handguns by faculty members.

    ----------
    HOUSE BILL NO. 91
    Offered January 11, 2012
    Prefiled December 27, 2011

    A BILL to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 23-9.2:3.04,
    relating to possession of concealed handguns by faculty members at public institutions of higher education.
    ----------
    Patron-- Marshall, R.G.
    ----------
    Committee Referral Pending
    ----------

    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

    1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 23-9.2:3.04 as follows:

    § 23-9.2:3.04. Possession of handguns by faculty members.

    A. Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, no board of visitors or other governing body of a public institution of higher education shall adopt or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy, and no appointee, employee, or agent of the institution shall take any administrative action governing the carrying of a concealed handgun on the property of or in buildings owned by the institution by a full-time faculty member of the institution who possesses a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit.

    B. Any rule, regulation, or policy adopted by a board of visitors or governing body of a public institution of higher education prior to July 1, 2012, that would prohibit a full-time faculty member of the institution who possesses a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit from carrying a concealed handgun on the property of or in the buildings owned by the institution is invalid.
    When I saw this I thought it was going to be the bill to watch. It'll be interesting to see where it's assigned and what happens then.

    That will give us some insight as to how the Education bills will go this year.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    This will definitely bear watching - it is a beginning.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Dovetail

    It will dovetail perfectly with one of our bills.

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Be nice if this applied to all employees and not just faculty since I work for one of these higher education facilities well actually the medical side of one :/
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    ^^^
    Agree.

    I'd really like not to need to choose between disarming or breaking a university policy regulating faculty/staff/volunteers simply because I cross an invisible line on a major state campus.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Well it is a simple, to the point bill. If that's what it takes to build upon next year, so be it. I do wonder, why only faculty? Why only full time? Why a VIRGINIA permit?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Well it is a simple, to the point bill. If that's what it takes to build upon next year, so be it. I do wonder, why only faculty? Why only full time? Why a VIRGINIA permit?
    I had exactly the same concerns.

    It should be "any person legally carrying"; it could be an adjunct professor, a visiting scholar, an ordinary tourist, or of course a student.

    If they're legal, there's no reason to restrict it to Virginia licensees.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Well it is a simple, to the point bill. If that's what it takes to build upon next year, so be it. I do wonder, why only faculty? Why only full time? Why a VIRGINIA permit?
    Most of it is to make it easier to pass Jay. Just throw in the permit and make it only applicable to the higher ups and it will be considered.
    An "all staff" or "Staff and Student" bill would only have a slim chance at getting through but with the latest Tech Shooting, it wouldn't have had a snowballs chance in downtown Fairfax.

    The Virginia part is probably a little more sinister.

    Back before "shall issue" Any Circuit Court Judge could issue a permit. People who lived in anti localities just applied in more gun friendly places.

    The Concealed Weapons laws hadn't changed for many years but the push was on. In order to get changes through the GA, lobbyists ignored the grooming restrictions like requiring people to apply in the jurisdiction in which they reside. That opened the door to "Shall issue".

    I suspect this is one such subtle move to restrict the use of out of state permits.

    The Devil is always in the Details.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Most of it is to make it easier to pass Jay. Just throw in the permit and make it only applicable to the higher ups and it will be considered.
    An "all staff" or "Staff and Student" bill would only have a slim chance at getting through but with the latest Tech Shooting, it wouldn't have had a snowballs chance in downtown Fairfax.

    The Virginia part is probably a little more sinister.

    Back before "shall issue" Any Circuit Court Judge could issue a permit. People who lived in anti localities just applied in more gun friendly places.

    The Concealed Weapons laws hadn't changed for many years but the push was on. In order to get changes through the GA, lobbyists ignored the grooming restrictions like requiring people to apply in the jurisdiction in which they reside. That opened the door to "Shall issue".

    I suspect this is one such subtle move to restrict the use of out of state permits.

    The Devil is always in the Details.
    Or is it possible that they've just overlooked that some Virginia residents choose to use out of state permits? Or is it a not-so-subtle statement that such practice is something not anticipated by the original reciprocity provisions?

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Or is it possible that they've just overlooked that some Virginia residents choose to use out of state permits? Or is it a not-so-subtle statement that such practice is something not anticipated by the original reciprocity provisions?

    TFred
    For a couple of years some members of the GA have considered reciprocity an invasion of their turf. That's one of the dangers of P4P. A simple stroke of the pen can undo everything we've had in Virginia.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Or is it possible that they've just overlooked that some Virginia residents choose to use out of state permits? Or is it a not-so-subtle statement that such practice is something not anticipated by the original reciprocity provisions?

    TFred
    IIRC, there are states that require residents to carry on a in state permit, AZ was one of those.
    FWIR, UT non res permit is no good if you live in a shall issue state and don't have a res permit.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    New bill submitted yesterday by Delegate Robert G. Marshall of Manassas. Already some press coverage.

    TFred

    Should Professors Pack Heat?

    HB 91: Higher educational institutions; possession of concealed handguns by faculty members.

    ----------
    HOUSE BILL NO. 91
    Offered January 11, 2012
    Prefiled December 27, 2011

    A BILL to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 23-9.2:3.04,
    relating to possession of concealed handguns by faculty members at public institutions of higher education.
    ----------
    Patron-- Marshall, R.G.
    ----------
    Committee Referral Pending
    ----------

    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

    1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 23-9.2:3.04 as follows:

    § 23-9.2:3.04. Possession of handguns by faculty members.

    A. Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, no board of visitors or other governing body of a public institution of higher education shall adopt or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy, and no appointee, employee, or agent of the institution shall take any administrative action governing the carrying of a concealed handgun on the property of or in buildings owned by the institution by a full-time faculty member of the institution who possesses a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit.

    B. Any rule, regulation, or policy adopted by a board of visitors or governing body of a public institution of higher education prior to July 1, 2012, that would prohibit a full-time faculty member of the institution who possesses a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit from carrying a concealed handgun on the property of or in the buildings owned by the institution is invalid.
    Ah yes, there it is! More P4P. Sure to be gobbled up by VCDL.

    What we need is complete preemption which includes all public entities within the commonwealth (state authorities, agencies, etc.)
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    This bill is absolutely useless. If we can get something like this passed in the GA, then there is no reason that we can't pass a bill that also protects the rights of students and staff. This bill settles for less when we are just as capable of getting much more. The only real challenge we face is making sure senators and delegates get passed the negative, anti-gun stigma of "evil guns on campus" at all. If we accomplish that (which I believe that we can do this year), then the doors will be fully open for the GA to preempt public colleges and universities against regulating visitors, faculty, staff, or students.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    This bill is absolutely useless. If we can get something like this passed in the GA, then there is no reason that we can't pass a bill that also protects the rights of students and staff. This bill settles for less when we are just as capable of getting much more. The only real challenge we face is making sure senators and delegates get passed the negative, anti-gun stigma of "evil guns on campus" at all. If we accomplish that (which I believe that we can do this year), then the doors will be fully open for the GA to preempt public colleges and universities against regulating visitors, faculty, staff, or students.
    +1000000 VApatriot! This is the same sort of crap that has kept Virginia from really advancing gun rights like other states.

    We should push for:

    Constitutional Carry
    Uber Preemption
    VA Firearms Freedom Act
    Anti bloomberg law for all purchases in Virginia, including internet sales
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    There is no question but that full state preemption is the ideal, and constitutional carry,
    and carry in K-12, and work place parking lots, and civil immunity,
    and personal liability for any politician that knowingly passes illegal laws, et al.

    All you have to do is get sponsors, then sufficient numbers from the various committees & both bodies of the GA to agree and get the governor to sign it. In a perfect world, this would be a cakewalk - unfortunately we do not live in such a world. It takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears + a lot of man hours to keep the ball moving forward.

    Ask yourself how involved in the process are you. Are you just grousing and looking for VCDL to do it for you? Step up to the plate and lend a hand - become personally part of the solution.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Well said Grapeshot

    We need more people to keep the pressure on their Del. & Sen, VCDL's political power comes from the citizens pushing their representative in the right direction.

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    hmmmmm

    Interesting that a post made it by all the ridicule of being a bill about CONCEALLED CARRY....

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJG View Post
    Interesting that a post made it by all the ridicule of being a bill about CONCEALLED CARRY....
    While the focus here is primarily on open carry, when a thread effects just a particular state CC law, it is routinely left in place rather than moved to General Discussion.

    We do not ridicule CC, nor the proponents thereof. We defend/promote the personal choice of how one chooses to carry and expound upon the benefits of OC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We do not ridicule CC, nor the proponents thereof. We defend/promote the personal choice of how one chooses to carry and expound upon the benefits of OC.
    To which Constitutional Carry and full statewide preemption would go the furthest towards propagating.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    To which Constitutional Carry and full statewide preemption would go the furthest towards propagating.
    Lori and Colin must be frantic/desperate to even catch their breath - the harder they try, the behinder they get.

    Let's saddle up buckaroos, Lobby Day's a comin'.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is no question but that full state preemption is the ideal, and constitutional carry,
    and carry in K-12, and work place parking lots, and civil immunity,
    and personal liability for any politician that knowingly passes illegal laws, et al.

    All you have to do is get sponsors, then sufficient numbers from the various committees & both bodies of the GA to agree and get the governor to sign it. In a perfect world, this would be a cakewalk - unfortunately we do not live in such a world. It takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears + a lot of man hours to keep the ball moving forward.

    Ask yourself how involved in the process are you. Are you just grousing and looking for VCDL to do it for you? Step up to the plate and lend a hand - become personally part of the solution.
    Peter,

    I for one am very involved in the process of taking back the Commonwealth. I know that VCDL will not do that, as they focus on priveledges for permit holders.

    Guns rights are important, but not the only issue. Gun rights will only be safe when they are nested in a robust constitutional framework. For example, without a 4th A, the 2nd A can be rendered meaningless by overbearing LEO's.

    Peace, Gold & Liberty,

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Peter,

    I for one am very involved in the process of taking back the Commonwealth. I know that VCDL will not do that, as they focus on priveledges for permit holders.

    Guns rights are important, but not the only issue. Gun rights will only be safe when they are nested in a robust constitutional framework. For example, without a 4th A, the 2nd A can be rendered meaningless by overbearing LEO's.

    Peace, Gold & Liberty,

    Thundar
    I didn't post that ThundarI know you're active and I completely agree that gun rights are not the only issue.
    You and I are on the same chapter, I just cut VCDL more slack than you do.

    This bill is in the works and while I don't approve of it, I'm keeping a low profile over the Education Bills this year as long as they are isolated to students and staff only.

    VCDL does have an agenda and as long as it doesn't take us backwards, I'm watching from the sidelines.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-30-2011 at 12:49 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Nothing new here

    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    This bill is absolutely useless. If we can get something like this passed in the GA, then there is no reason that we can't pass a bill that also protects the rights of students and staff. This bill settles for less when we are just as capable of getting much more. The only real challenge we face is making sure senators and delegates get passed the negative, anti-gun stigma of "evil guns on campus" at all. If we accomplish that (which I believe that we can do this year), then the doors will be fully open for the GA to preempt public colleges and universities against regulating visitors, faculty, staff, or students.
    This is nothing new. Marshall, along with Gilbert, tried this back in 2008.

    Delegates seek to loosen gun restrictions
    One bill that Republican Delegate Bob Marshall hopes will help to impede a similar incident regards colleges' full-time faculty members.

    Shortly after the April 16 shootings, a professor at George Mason University told Marshall that the knowledge of instructors' possession of guns might discourage attackers. Marshall's bill would allow faculty members who have a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit to carry their firearms on campus.

    "I thought that this could be a way to beef up security and not cost a lot of money," Marshall said, adding that anyone who possesses a concealed handgun permit has gone through a clearance process and demonstrated some proficiency handling a gun.

    Republican Delegate C. Todd Gilbert proposed a similar bill in 2005, but it dealt with students who have obtained valid concealed handgun permits. The bill was killed in committee.

    This session, Gilbert has presented a related bill that would restrict colleges' boards of visitors from prohibiting any person's possession of a handgun on state property if he or she possesses a valid concealed handgun permit. His proposition has been referred to the Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety, where both Cole and Marshall's bills also landed.
    Of course, the efforts failed, due largely to Speaker Howell's cowardice. Later in Session, Marshall and Gilbert held a joint Press Conference:

    Tabled concealed carry legislation sparks debate
    New legislation from two Virginia state delegates has caused controversy following recent incidents at college campuses nationwide. The legislation, HB 424 and HB 1371, introduced by delegates Robert Marshall (R-13) and Todd Gilbert (R-15), would allow faculty members to carry weapons into classrooms.

    Both HB 424 and HB 1371 were left in committee, meaning that the bills have been killed for the 2008 session. Marshall and Gilbert came together for a press conference with members of the group Students for Concealed Carry on Campus Monday morning. At the conference both legislators defended the ability for professors to carry weapons.
    This further explains Howell's actions:

    Bob Marshall’s Opening Salvo
    In 2008 I and Del. Gilbert introduced concealed carry bills. I would have voted for HB 1371 (Gilbert) which prohibits a state entity, including the board of visitors of a state institution of higher education, from prohibiting the possession of a handgun on state property by a person with a valid concealed handgun permit, unless expressly authorized by statute to adopt such a rule, regulation, or policy. This is directed primarily at state college Boards of Visitors which have prohibited concealed carry permit holders who are students from exercising concealed carry rights on a campus.

    Additionally, I introduced HB 424 which allows full-time faculty members of state institutions of higher education who possess a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun on campus.

    However, Republican Speaker Bill Howell made it very clear he did not want these bills considered, and Militia and Police Chair Beverly Sherwood refused to call our bills up for a hearing. Del. Gilbert and I held a press conference at the end of the 2008 session and criticized Speaker Howell for this gag rule he imposed on our concealed carry bills.

    Republican Majority leader Morgan Griffith said the bills would have failed if they were reported to the floor. But his statement does not square with his own actions in pulling a bill from the House floor when I offered an amendment to another bill which would have allowed professors to carry on campus.

    When I was not in the House Chamber because of a previously scheduled meeting in Northern Virginia, Del. Griffith called up the bill I wanted to amend and it passed without my proposed concealed carry amendment.

    What I am saying is that I am not hopeful the Republican leadership will assist us in this matter.

    There is the additional problem that Speaker Bill Howell in 2008 pushed for and secured a House Rules change which limits all delegates to only introducing 15 bills per year. I talked to the Speaker about this at the Clemson-UVA game, Saturday, November 22. He told me no one ever asked him to introduce more than 15 bills, and that he saw no reason that any House of Delegates member should be allowed to introduce more than 15 bills. I disagreed with him, pointing out that I have more registered voters than some Virginia state Senate districts.

    I voted AGAINST this rule change and another one which provided for secret votes in sub-committees and was punished by Speaker Howell by being denied a committee chairmanship, removed as vice chair from a committee I had been on since 1992 and was subject to other “penalties.”
    The only thing that would be "new" is if Howell actually grew a pair in the years since.

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    what the bill is missing

    the bill needs to allow anyone with a concealed handgun permit to be allowed to carry on campus. Letting just faculty would be only giving a chance to the teachers.

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