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Shooting at someone on purpose, at the range

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
The higher the speed and the lower the drag the instructor claims, the more likely you are to see this sort of behavior. The implication is that the instructor is so skilled that they can always miss you, and that if you take their class you will become just as skilled.

It's much the same as the instructors/schools that claim to operate under "big boy rules" for people that wear "big boy pants" - involving some shooters advancing ahead of the rest of the shooters because that will happen "in real life".

Most of us are never going to be part of a stack charging up the stairs to take out Osama bin Laden, or busting through the plate glass window to take down a gang of bank robbers holding grannies and Girl Scouts hostage. So we do not go looking for trainers and training that expose us to such high levels of risk. Maybe Seal Team Six and Food Court Team Eight will face those situations and need to train like that. But they signed up knowing that they were going to go into extremely dangerous situations where they could be shot by either the "enemy" or their team buddy. Us "normal" folks generally do not look for that much excitement.

Maybe the best we can do is expose those HS/LD folks - here's their sign
moran.jpg

stay safe.
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
The higher the speed and the lower the drag the instructor claims, the more likely you are to see this sort of behavior. The implication is that the instructor is so skilled that they can always miss you, and that if you take their class you will become just as skilled.

It's much the same as the instructors/schools that claim to operate under "big boy rules" for people that wear "big boy pants" - involving some shooters advancing ahead of the rest of the shooters because that will happen "in real life".

Most of us are never going to be part of a stack charging up the stairs to take out Osama bin Laden, or busting through the plate glass window to take down a gang of bank robbers holding grannies and Girl Scouts hostage. So we do not go looking for trainers and training that expose us to such high levels of risk. Maybe Seal Team Six and Food Court Team Eight will face those situations and need to train like that. But they signed up knowing that they were going to go into extremely dangerous situations where they could be shot by either the "enemy" or their team buddy. Us "normal" folks generally do not look for that much excitement.

Maybe the best we can do is expose those HS/LD folks - here's their sign
View attachment 7679

stay safe.

You mean...I'm never going to get to storm the house to help save girlscouts? :lol:

I agree whole heartedly with you!
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
While I agree with you in principle, I do think the likelihood that a carrier (OC/CC) will be in the presence of a Luby's/Va Tech lunatic some time over the next decade is considerable. Therefore, it behooves us to be ready.

I can think of half a dozen situations where I might have to shoot a BG in close quarters. Most will probably not be hostage situations. Instead, they'll probably be at a restaurant or other public location where missing the BG will endanger an innocent standing behind them or in front of them. Thus, my aim must be right on target. If it is a lunatic situation, they'll probably be blasting away with people running everywhere, so time is of the essence, as well.

It's a delicate balance between time and accuracy, no doubt about it.
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
One of the things people forget, is that you can walk up to a BG and put the gun on them and pull the trigger. My partner used that solution to a hostage scenario I posed the other day. I complimented her on a great extemporaneous firing solution.

If you're a small female and the BG is looking at your big hairy boyfriend as the threat, that kind of thing can work.

On the OP, Absorb what is useful to you, disregard the rest. The 80/20 rule. Customize/personalize your training.

It's all about the 'HOW', not the 'WHAT':

o Decide what your goal is (this can be simple or pretty complicated. Think it out like a coding problem, flowchart it);
o Find an expert who is accomplished at what you want to do. Copy them until you get results, try to understand what you're copying;
o Fine tune your approach as you figure out WHY it works and can explain it clearly and concisely. Here you truly begin to absorb;
o Eliminate anything that is counterproductive or non-essential, (Pareto principle, above) like a sculptor removing marble to reveal the statue/art;
o Learn to create variations based on your knowledge of self. Master yourself first and you will win a thousand battles;
o Innovate. Make it your own;
o At some point break all the rules you learned (or be prepared to do so), and reassemble them;
o When the student is ready the master appears;
o Try to return to your original freedom (no mind).

...and things like that.
 

The_Pennsylvanian

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
65
Location
Marshfield, WI
One of the things people forget, is that you can walk up to a BG and put the gun on them and pull the trigger. My partner used that solution to a hostage scenario I posed the other day. I complimented her on a great extemporaneous firing solution.

If you're a small female and the BG is looking at your big hairy boyfriend as the threat, that kind of thing can work.

On the OP, Absorb what is useful to you, disregard the rest. The 80/20 rule. Customize/personalize your training.

It's all about the 'HOW', not the 'WHAT':

o Decide what your goal is (this can be simple or pretty complicated. Think it out like a coding problem, flowchart it);
o Find an expert who is accomplished at what you want to do. Copy them until you get results, try to understand what you're copying;
o Fine tune your approach as you figure out WHY it works and can explain it clearly and concisely. Here you truly begin to absorb;
o Eliminate anything that is counterproductive or non-essential, (Pareto principle, above) like a sculptor removing marble to reveal the statue/art;
o Learn to create variations based on your knowledge of self. Master yourself first and you will win a thousand battles;
o Innovate. Make it your own;
o At some point break all the rules you learned (or be prepared to do so), and reassemble them;
o When the student is ready the master appears;
o Try to return to your original freedom (no mind).

...and things like that.


I caught at least one quote from "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu in there.An excellent book , and a must read !
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
I caught at least one quote from "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu in there.An excellent book , and a must read !

Thanks. Hope my list helped some folks.

I could write a book on 'How to Master Yourself'. It's very difficult, but there is a pathway (a delivery system, I call it).

It takes about 4-6 weeks to master one aspect and if you stop practicing (it's a continuous process) it wears off in about a month. In fact I learned recently that one of my 'principles' was actually the reverse of what works (in some people).

Here's an example. I usually tout the idea of 'playing positive tapes' and not having negative thoughts not saying "I can't" or "I don't". But I realized due to one person's comment that this is doesn't work a lot of the time. (yikes!). Research actually supports this.

What actually works is mentally "playing a negative tape" (thinking negatively) because it makes (some) people become resolute in their quest to change. It's like 'taking yourself to task'.

In fact, when I thought about it I realized that a lot of my successes, meager that they are, were achieved because I played negative tapes to myself. On the way to the gym I'd say 'gawd, you're a wussy, there's a girl that weighs 110lbs who can snatch 220lbs'. When I was biking I'd say near the end of a ride 'there are 50 year old women riding in triathlons who get a better time for 10 miles than this', and I'd get a burst of anger-energy.

So, it's a process and the key is not what but how. Ability to correctly analyze, find root causes, make a framework, researching your own experience.
 
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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
While I agree with you in principle, I do think the likelihood that a carrier (OC/CC) will be in the presence of a Luby's/Va Tech lunatic some time over the next decade is considerable. Therefore, it behooves us to be ready.

I can think of half a dozen situations where I might have to shoot a BG in close quarters. Most will probably not be hostage situations. Instead, they'll probably be at a restaurant or other public location where missing the BG will endanger an innocent standing behind them or in front of them. Thus, my aim must be right on target. If it is a lunatic situation, they'll probably be blasting away with people running everywhere, so time is of the essence, as well.

It's a delicate balance between time and accuracy, no doubt about it.

Not a bit of disagreement on anything you've said.

But I can pracice precision shooting without actually endangering another person. Try, for example, tethering balloons on either side of your target - especially if you have access to swingers or twisting targets! Jog in place to get the heart rate up, then walk a figure-8 and have someone activate your target. Keep your bullet(s) from hitting the balloons while hitting the target. The point is that there is no need to take the risk, no matter how minimal, of hitting another person when you can create the same tight shooting line by other means.

If you can't do movement at your favorite range, go get an airsoft of your handgun and practice shooting targets while walking/climbing/jumping through your house. Works especially well if there are all sorts of knick-knacks and breakables you have to miss.:D Or, for the faint of heart, shoot every other plate on a falling-plate set. Or get someone to call your target on a Texas Star. Remember, perfect practice makes perfect performance.

On the other hand, if you want to know what it feels like to be shot at and are too old to join the military (most of which do not get shot at anyway) then there are some neighborhoods I can suggest you go visit. But I think the cops will treat you like the Game Wardens do hunters shooting over bait - if you survive to meet the cops.

stay safe.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
Well first off that guy is not in the US where he would suffer great financial and legal ramification if there were any "accidents".

If he had an accident he would probably drag them off into the forest and let the animals take care of the body.
 
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