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Thread: Second Amendment Rights

  1. #1
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Grandpa Carries a Gun

    Grandpa carries a gun - Why Carry a Gun?

    My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin.'

    I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

    I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

    I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

    I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

    I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

    I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

    I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

    I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

    I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

    I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

    I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

    Police protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves. Police do not protect you from crime, they usually investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

    Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin' ....author unknown.

    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.

    From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

    You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

    Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

    With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. Look at England!

    If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun-control message to all of your friends.

    The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.

    SWITZERLAND AS A MODEL

    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

    SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

    IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

    I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment! If you are too, please forward.
    Last edited by TGP; 12-29-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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  2. #2
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    No Gun Rights in England.

    PROTECT YOUR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS!

    This story tells what happened in England over the past century: It could happen in America if we are not diligent!

    You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.

    At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way. With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it.

    In the darkness, you make out two shadows. One holds something that looks like a crowbar. When the intruder brandishes it, as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire. The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

    As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble. In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless. Yours was never registered.

    Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

    When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter."What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask. "Only ten-to-twelve years," he replies, as if that's nothing. "Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven.

    "The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them.

    Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times. But the next day's headline says it all: "Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die." The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters.

    As the days wear on, the story takes wings.

    The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero. Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win. The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

    A few months later, you go to trial. The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted. When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you. Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man. It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges. The judge sentences you to life in prison.

    This case really happened.

    On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk, England, killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term. How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire?

    It started with the Pistols Act of 1903. This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.

    The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.

    Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

    Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw. When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead. The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

    Nine years later, at Dunblane, Scotland, Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns.

    The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.

    During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.

    Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.

    Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released. Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into their own hands." All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

    When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities. Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.

    Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens. How did the authorities know who had handguns? The guns had been registered and licensed. Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?

    WAKE UP AMERICA!

    THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION
    Last edited by TGP; 12-29-2011 at 12:10 PM.
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  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Aye! On both posts.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Gun storage in a vehicle

    Endpoint asks: Any suggestions here? Particularly locking up in the car? I have a generic push button pistol safe that I was considering bolting to the floor in the passenger side of my car. I don't often carry passengers. I was also considering a Titan gun vault. My concern is that this would be too visible and be a target. The trunk (in a safe or otherwise) is probably not an option as I want to be able to stow the pistol before I get out of the car.

    Oh, also since this is my first post on the forum...mailed 11/19check cleared 11/29? No permit yet.

    My Response:

    Nano Vault NV300. Ordered mine online for $35 including shipping. Came in 3 days.

    www.gunvault.com for the Nano Vault 300 - $35 including shipping. Excellent value. Quite heavy but small enough to fit under your car seat. Has 1500 lb pull cable to attach to the car set frame. The cable is long enough to pull it out to add or remove your gun.

    Looks good in black and has a combo lock so no lost keys. Good luck and Happy New Year!
    Last edited by TGP; 12-31-2011 at 08:23 PM.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    at least this time you are derailing your own thread... hehehe.
    the usa poll must be old, too old to waste time on, 10,000,000 votes, 97% agree the 2A is a right to carry.

    but i have to ask for a cite for this line,,,

    This upcoming year will become critical for gun owners with the Supreme Court's accepting the District of Columbia case against the right for individuals to bear arms.

    it seems to me that you are about 2 years late...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  6. #6
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Fox News reported on 12/30/11 that the Obama Aministration will soon be making an announcement fom Attorney General Eric Holder what the Administrations plans are for gun control in America.

    Be alert Attorney General, Eric Holder, has already said gun control is one of his major issues and goals and that he does not believe the 2nd Amendment gives individuals the right to bear arms.
    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 01:18 AM.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,,

    your last post is just pure FUD... But most of your posts are..
    Im still asking for a cite,, to an upcoming supreme court case against the right to carry in D.C.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  8. #8
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    your last post is just pure FUD... But most of your posts are.
    Not getting caught up in your negativity. Couldn't find the cite so deleted the post. Posted it before verifying it with the source or snopes. Lo siento, es mi culpa. Good lesson learned, though.

    I replaced the post with the following predicating story that I personally heard on Fox News:

    Fox News reported on 12/30/11 that the Obama Aministration will soon be making a long anticipated announcement from Attorney General Eric Holder on what the Administration's plans are for gun control in America, that Obama promised 2 years ago.

    Be alert Attorney General, Eric Holder, has already said gun control is one of his major issues and goals and that he does not believe the 2nd Amendment gives individuals the right to bear arms.

    Don't know, or much care, what FUD is but if you think my posts about Why Grandpa Carries a Gun and Freedoms lost in England are FUD. Then, maybe you need to reevaluate your own position on the issue of gun control and 2nd Amndment rights.

    I've received almost 30 thank yous and positive messages regarding those posts. Yours is the first and only negative response.

    I suggest if you don't like the posts - Don't read them!

    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 02:10 AM.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    your original posts about grandpa and world disarmorment are good reads and worthy of thread space and time, but
    they are old, as i/we have seen them before, lot of times.
    more study for you,,, read up on whats happened to australia in thes last few years since disarmormeent down under!
    our friend "Haz" has posted much about this...

    BTW FUD staands for "fear, uncertanty and doubt".
    your story, that you personally heard on fox news, is not news, we have known since day one that this administration
    would like too Control guns, more...
    Where did you think "fast and furious" came from?

    as for not reading your posts,,, I ignore no one. I study 5 states and 7 general sub forums, but no other boards,
    so when you bring posts from other boards to post them here, it tends to get on my nerves.
    we have had many discousions about gun safes in cars already, in the appropriate sub forum,,, lots of times..

    we expect cites to important news about our rights here on OCDO, so if you go off half cocked
    about something, and you are questioned about its validity it is bad form to go back deleting
    the offending posts to save your face.
    just fess up and move on.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  10. #10
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    your original posts about grandpa and world disarmorment are good reads and worthy of thread space and time, but they are old, as i/we have seen them before, lot of times.
    more study for you, read up on whats happened to australia in thes last few years since disarmormeent down under! Our friend "Haz" has posted much about this.

    BTW FUD staands for "fear, uncertanty and doubt".
    your story, that you personally heard on fox news, is not news, we have known since day one that this administration would like too Control guns, more. Where did you think "fast and furious" came from?

    as for not reading your posts,,, I ignore no one. I study 5 states and 7 general sub forums, but no other boards, so when you bring posts from other boards to post them here, it tends to get on my nerves.
    we have had many discousions about gun safes in cars already, in the appropriate sub forum,,, lots of times..

    we expect cites to important news about our rights here on OCDO, so if you go off half cocked
    about something, and you are questioned about its validity it is bad form to go back deleting
    the offending posts to save your face. just fess up and move on.
    More arrogant, pernicious, hurtful and unproductive negativity. That seems to be your mode with a know-it-all arrogant attitude. First, I've never heard either of these two stories before and it seems from the 30 thank yous I've received, they haven't either. And, that's with 31 years of military and 30 years of federal law enforcement under my belt. And, even if you and some others have heard them before, many new comers, like me, haven't - good articles can be redundant and effective.

    Your reference to not needing to know about the Fox News report 2 days ago that the Obama administration plans in the near future to make an announcement of its gun control plans is I'll advised and presumptuous on your part.

    Of course we all know about the Obama attacks on 2A rights. That's why I started this thread. But, what IS NEWS and IS important is that despite 76% support for 2A and opposition to gun control in America that Obama still plans to go ahead with a gun control plan over America's majority objection. And, it appears that effort will begin soon! Yes it IS NEWS! Many, including me, believed that Obama in his fanatical race for reelection would pass on gun control since not only Repubs but many Dems oppose gun control and feel strongly enough about it to not vote for him on this one issue alone. Yes, the fact that they plan to go for it regardless, is news - big bad news, though I doubt he could ever get this House or Senate to pass it. Trouble is he'll likely sneak it in through some executive order not needing Senate or House approval.

    In the spirit, of mutual cooperation, concern for the feelings of others, best wishes for a new year, and with an understanding of our individual differences, I ask that you keep your negative comments to yourself on the thread that I started. You've had nothing but negative comments on any post I've made, here or elsewhere.

    I am asking you to end this discussion without further negative response on your part. If you choose to respond with more negativity your motives will be clear.
    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 03:31 AM.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    in my research about the UK story, I found your post on defensivecarry.com.
    your thread only has 14 posts, some are yours, some are off topic, leaving only a few thank yous. Wow.
    I copied two sentences of the UK story and did a yahoo search with it,
    i got 5 pages of results with that exact story.
    it has been posted EVERYWHERE!!! FOREVER!!!
    the first result led to snopes,,, in 2002... http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/81/t/000082.html
    it is a great STORY,, but it is NOT as true a it tries to sound.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  12. #12
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    in my research about the UK story, I found your post on defensivecarry.com.
    your thread only has 14 posts, some are yours, some are off topic, leaving only a few thank yous. Wow.
    I copied two sentences of the UK story and did a yahoo search with it,
    i got 5 pages of results with that exact story.
    it has been posted EVERYWHERE!!! FOREVER!!!
    the first result led to snopes,,, in 2002... http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/81/t/000082.html
    it is a great STORY,, but it is NOT as true a it tries to sound.

    To my chagrin, you have me caught up in your negativity, against my better wishes.

    You are right, Defensivecarry.com is where one of my Second Amendment Rights threads are located. But, That's the only thing you got right. I just checked and there are 27 likes (with thank you messages) as of now. 11 likes on yet another site. And, my thread on ArmedBadger.com has 241 views and 18 responses with no negativity. Mr arrogant researcher, if you'd done your research thoroughly, you'd have known that.

    But, you have totally missed the point! And, BTW, you are OFF TOPIC.

    This IS NOT ABOUT ME, it's about SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS!

    Defender is your moniker - What do you defend? That is a rhetorical question and doesn't require a response!

    I woke up today, a bright sunny Sunday, 1/1/12, watching Fox News. The host was doing an article, that reminded me so much of you. He quoted the Fox News CEO's (Roger Ailes) favorite saying which is NEGATIVE PEOPLE MAKE POSITIVE PEOPLE SICK. SURROUND YOURSELF WITH POSITIVE PEOPLE. He was interviewing Roger McCrudden, President, Motivate America. If you want to research something, research Roger Ailes.

    I suggest you try a New Year's resolution of thinking positive and being less critical! Maybe go to church today and listen to the message. Be a positive organizer rather than a nay-sayer.

    And, focus on THE THREAT TO AMERICA's SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

    Why do I feel this will fall on deaf ears.

    I asked you not to respond with negativity. Or, better yet, not respond at all. But, you did, just to prove your point! There is a name for those people. Enough said on that.

    BTW, Your heading " WELL,,,," reaks of arrogance.

    I suspect negativity and arrogance are a way of life with you, CCC - Criticize, Condemn & Complain.

    I think I'll take Roger Ailes advice. I anxiously await NOT HEARING FROM YOU ANY FURTHER.

    If you feel you need the last word, any response from you, will be exactly that.

    Us, we're off to Church!
    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    but then,,,

    while searching around I found myself rreading some old forums with canadians and UK folks comparing the US gun laws with theirs.
    I also reread many of the posts made by Haz from australia.
    Haz is convinced his country has been ruined for the safety and security of good and moral people, because they are disarmed.
    The UK folks also are screwed by the whole mindset of anti self defense and pity for the poor misguided criminals.
    The canadians that posted seemed to think they were not too far behind the US in having gun rights, and getting better.

    What I get wonder is,, How could they expect to retain their right to keep and bear arms if they
    have no constitution, bow to a queen, and have no enumirated rights as Citizens, for they are all SUBJECTS!!

    The UK story ends with "Wake Up America!"
    America is Wide awake,, We have been awake for lots of times, for lots of things, lots of us...
    Gun rights in most of america are better now than they have been in 30 years.
    2 years ago they got better in D.C.!!
    this year they got better in wisconsin.
    last year they got better in chicago.

    as for my screen name, it means, 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendment, Defender.
    these are my focus.
    I have been and always will be ready and willing, to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States of America.
    I took an oath in 1971, I meant it then and I mean it now.

    I use well,,, or wow,,, or humm,,, in the opening to a post to show that i thought or was surprised or bored.
    its not meant to do anything,,, and it shouldnt be part of the post because it wont be included in a quote.

    on positive thinking.
    I think lots of folks, in lots of places in america, are doing lots of things that are improving our rights.
    I am carefull to refrain from making "the sky is falling" types of posts.
    a beef I had about fox news, and your reporting it here,
    is that, It really is NOT news!
    the thought behind it is important, but,
    fox news was just being used by the administration to float a TRIAL BALLOON!

    I have thick skin, you have called me names, I wont do that.
    I write about the content of your posts.
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 01-01-2012 at 10:46 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    while searching around I found myself rreading some old forums with canadians and UK folks comparing the US gun laws with theirs.
    I also reread many of the posts made by Haz from australia.
    Haz is convinced his country has been ruined for the safety and security of good and moral people, because they are disarmed.
    The UK folks also are screwed by the whole mindset of anti self defense and pity for the poor misguided criminals.
    The canadians that posted seemed to think they were not too far behind the US in having gun rights, and getting better.

    What I get wonder is,, How could they expect to retain their right to keep and bear arms if they
    have no constitution, bow to a queen, and have no enumirated rights as Citizens, for they are all SUBJECTS!!

    The UK story ends with "Wake Up America!"
    America is Wide awake,, We have been awake for lots of times, for lots of things, lots of us...
    Gun rights in most of america are better now than they have been in 30 years.
    2 years ago they got better in D.C.!!
    this year they got better in wisconsin.
    last year they got better in chicago.
    Great read. And, very positive. Thanks. Can I copy it to my other threads on defensivecarry.com and ArmedBadger.com?
    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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  15. #15
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Gun rights in most of america are better now than they have been in 30 years.

    2 years ago they got better in D.C.!!
    this year they got better in wisconsin.
    last year they got better in chicago.
    And, don't forget Arizona. Arizona became constitutional carry in July 2010.
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  16. #16
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    A bit of history concerning gun control in Germany

    An interesting & informative read I picked up from another site:

    A bit of history concerning gun control in Germany:

    History of firearms restrictions in Germany - Restrictions imposed by the treaty of Versailles.

    In 1919 and 1920, to stabilize the country and in part to comply with the Treaty of Versailles, the German Weimar government passed very strict gun ownership restrictions. Article 169 of the Treaty of Versailles stated, "Within two months from the coming into force of the present Treaty, German arms, munitions, and war material, including anti-aircraft material, existing in Germany in excess of the quantities allowed, must be surrendered to the Governments of the Principal Allied and Associated Powers to be destroyed or rendered useless."

    In 1919, the German government passed the Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which declared that "all firearms, as well as all kinds of firearms ammunition, are to be surrendered immediately." Under the regulations, anyone found in possession of a firearm or ammunition was subject to five years' imprisonment and a fine of 100,000 marks.

    On August 7, 1920, the German government enacted a second gun-regulation law called the Law on the Disarmament of the People. It put into effect the provisions of the Versailles Treaty in regard to the limit on military-type weapons.

    In 1928, the German government enacted the Law on Firearms and Ammunition. This law relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm licensing scheme. Under this scheme, Germans could possess firearms, but they were required to have separate permits to do the following: own or sell firearms, carry firearms (including handguns), manufacture firearms, and professionally deal in firearms and ammunition. This law explicitly revoked the 1919 Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which had banned all firearms possession.

    Stephen Halbrook writes about the German gun restriction laws in the 1919-1928 period, "Within a decade, Germany had gone from a brutal firearms seizure policy which, in times of unrest, entailed selective yet immediate execution for mere possession of a firearm, to a modern, comprehensive gun control law."

    The 1938 German Weapons Act...

    The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:

    * Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition
    * The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.
    * The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.
    * The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.
    * Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammunition.

    Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.

    On November 11, 1938, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons. This regulation effectively deprived all Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons.

    As follow up - Hitler's stooges were able to seize gun registration files and cross reference them with Synagogue membership roles and well.....the rest we all know!

    It's mandatory gun registration that we must fear.
    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    wowwy,,,,

    28 minutes for church?
    our posts actually overlap.
    you were saying nice things about the first part of my post, as I was adding more thoughts..
    go back to see it in its complete form.

    my posts are meant for you, and my other friends here on OCDO.
    If you learned something from it, share it with any and all of your friends, but
    dont copy and paste, write your own words, then tell them to whoever you wish.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  18. #18
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    28 minutes for church?
    our posts actually overlap.
    you were saying nice things about the first part of my post, as I was adding more thoughts..
    go back to see it in its complete form.

    my posts are meant for you, and my other friends here on OCDO.
    If you learned something from it, share it with any and all of your friends, but
    dont copy and paste, write your own words, then tell them to whoever you wish.
    Its 911am here in CA. UMC is at 10am. thanks.

    PS - Fox News is the only real news. MSNBC, CNN and the others are Obama Aministration mouthpieces. Very few true conservatives listen to them. Fox followers number far more than CNN - maybe CNN and MSNBC combined.

    REALLY have to leave for church now. Have a great day!
    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,, no. really!,,, well,,,

    Hope you enjoy the service.
    when you said ,,, off to church now, I thought you meant,,, NOW!
    i thought you were in wisconsin, getting permits and all, so now im hearing or reading you are in california?,,, humph..
    as for FOX,, I watch them alot, but I dont put ANY of my eggs in one basket.
    they seem to show both or many sides of a story, but they still often fail to show ANY sides to a story seen elsewhere.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  20. #20
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Hope you enjoy the service.
    when you said ,,, off to church now, I thought you meant,,, NOW!
    i thought you were in wisconsin, getting permits and all, so now im hearing or reading you are in california?,,, humph..
    as for FOX,, I watch them alot, but I dont put ANY of my eggs in one basket.
    they seem to show both or many sides of a story, but they still often fail to show ANY sides to a story seen elsewhere.
    I agree RE Fox. Watch CNN now and then until I can't take their liberal BS anymore.

    Fox presents the best conservative viewpoint, in my opinion. They almost always have a liberal like Alan Colmes, Juan Williams or the other guy presenting the liberal view. CNN doesn't do this.

    I do live in Norwalk, WI. But, if you've checked my website, in my signature, you've no doubt seen that we have a WI and a CA home. I live in WI in a home we built on my wife's father's working Nauman dairy farm. We have 10 acres there adjoining about 300 acres of the Nauman family farm. We've turned the WI home into a small Christian retreat center, used by the Sparta UMC and others.

    I am in CA to assist my wife who just had her 7th surgery on 12/12/11 due to an Aug 2010 car accident. Wanted to have my CCW before driving back to TGP in WI.

    I'm retired, my wife has 3 more years so living apart has become a way of life for us since I retired in 2004 from 30 years of federal Law Enforcement with USINS and Border Patrol. Then I spent 2006-2008 in Iraq, Jordan, Israel & Palestine as a Border Patrol trainer. Two of my sons spent a total of 3 tours in Iraq. So you can see we are a military family big on patriotism. Rifles, handguns & hunting are a way of life for us. Hooah!

    Go Packers!
    Last edited by TGP; 01-01-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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  21. #21
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    "The Gun Is Civilization" By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

    "The Gun Is Civilization" By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force.

    Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it. In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

    The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender. There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations.

    These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society. But, a firearm makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job.

    That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society.

    A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways.

    Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

    People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.

    The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier, works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

    The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply would not work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation.

    And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act!

    By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
    Last edited by TGP; 01-11-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Chap's Avatar
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    Nice read thanks.
    Kimber Ultra Carry II .45 ACP, 3" barrel 1911 with a Mitch Rosen holster

    New additions to the family -
    XDm .45 ACP 02FEB11,
    Ruger LCP .380 05FEB11

  23. #23
    Regular Member TGP's Avatar
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    Brilliant obituary in London TIMES
    A sad bit of truth
    An Obituary printed in the London Times.....Absolutely Brilliant !!!

    Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense , who has
    been with us for many years.
    No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago
    lost in bureaucratic red tape.
    He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
    - Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
    - Why the early bird gets the worm;
    - Life isn't always fair;
    - and maybe it was my fault.

    Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more
    than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in
    charge).

    His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
    overbearing regulations were set in place.
    Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a
    classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and
    a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his
    condition.

    Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job
    that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.


    It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent
    to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform
    parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

    Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and
    criminals received better treatment than their victims.

    Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar
    in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault. GUNS BANNED!

    Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
    realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her
    lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

    Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his
    wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.

    He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
    I Know My Rights
    I Want It Now
    Someone Else Is To Blame
    I'm A Victim

    Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
    If you still remember him, pass this on.
    If not, join the majority and do nothing.


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