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TN Open Carry Report

OngoingFreedom

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Middle TN
OC'd while bicycle riding with my wife in Triple Creek Park in Gallatin and the connected greenway Sunday. Before we could even start we watched a young Hispanic boy get distracted watching his family walk towards him while riding his bike, wipe out and grind off a quarter-sized spot on his knee. I grabbed my car's first aid kit and helped his father fix him up. He was in a lot of pain but only sniffled a time or two. He was very brave!


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Oh Shoot

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
184
Location
Knoxville
No, it was not.

(c) (1) Each chief administrator of public recreational property shall display in prominent locations about the public recreational property a sign, at least six inches (6�) high and fourteen inches (14�) wide, stating:

MISDEMEANOR. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS AND TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON OR IN PUBLIC RECREATIONAL PROPERTY.

The TN AG has published opinion that you may be convicted of carrying in prohibited park, regardless of signage, even with no signage at all.

Which is why all the people who say that signage must be "legal" may well be wrong, until there is at least case law to support that.

Unlike the federal statute regarding carry in federal buildings, neither of the two signage statues in TCA state that a non-conforming notice exonerates you from prosecution.

- OS
 

independence

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
339
Location
Tennessee
The TN AG has published opinion that you may be convicted of carrying in prohibited park, regardless of signage, even with no signage at all.

Which is why all the people who say that signage must be "legal" may well be wrong, until there is at least case law to support that.

Unlike the federal statute regarding carry in federal buildings, neither of the two signage statues in TCA state that a non-conforming notice exonerates you from prosecution.

- OS

Unfortunately, OS is right. This can be found in TN Attorney General Opinion 09-158:

6. [Question] If a county or municipality chooses to prohibit the carrying of firearms in parks which they own, could a permit holder be convicted of violating Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1311 if such county or municipality failed to comply with the posting requirements set forth in Chapter 428?

6. [Opinion] A handgun carry permit holder who carries a firearm into a county or municipal park where the county or municipality has prohibited such carrying could still be convicted of violating Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1311 even if such county or municipality failed to comply with the posting requirements that are set forth in section 2(e)(2) of Chapter 42

6. [Analysis] You ask if a handgun carry permit holder could be convicted of violating Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1311 for carrying a firearm into a county or municipal park where such carrying is prohibited if the county or municipality failed to comply with the posting requirements that are set forth in Chapter 428. In the prosecution of a criminal case, the State bears the burden of proving every element of an offense. State v. Dotson, 254 S.W.3d 378 (Tenn. 2008). The question is thus whether proof that such signs were properly posted is an element of the offense. If the failure to post signs in a park where the carrying of firearms is prohibited is such an element, then a carry permit holder could not be convicted of violating Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1311 if the state failed to prove that such signs were posted. On the other hand if proof of such posting is not an element, then a handgun carry permit holder could be convicted of violating Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1311 even if the county or municipality that has prohibited the carrying of firearms in parks which they own has failed to post the required signage.
 

FTG-05

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
441
Location
TN
The TN AG has published opinion that you may be convicted of carrying in prohibited park, regardless of signage, even with no signage at all.

Which is why all the people who say that signage must be "legal" may well be wrong, until there is at least case law to support that.

Unlike the federal statute regarding carry in federal buildings, neither of the two signage statues in TCA state that a non-conforming notice exonerates you from prosecution.

- OS

Good thing I had bigger fish to fry (literally) and didn't want to deal with the possible unwanted interactions with the local Lincoln county sheriff's deputy.

Good to know, thanks!
 

Silvertongue

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
213
Location
Marion County, Tennessee
Met a very nice California resident last night at Wendy's who was extremely frustrated with the oppressive laws of his home state.

He wasn't even a firearms enthusiast, he just hated being told how to live. But he thought my XDm was a "good lookin' pistola," so I'll say he at least has good taste.
 

independence

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
339
Location
Tennessee
2 good open carry experiences this past weekend to report:

Tractor Supply
Among other things, I bought a toy gun for one of my kids which sparked a conversation with the checkout clerk. She said that my kid wanted to "be just like daddy." Then she said, "I see that pistol there by your side. Yup, I see that." Her tone of voice was funny because it almost sounded like that she thought I was hoping no one would notice. (OC....The new CC!) The she proceeded to tell me that she should be against guns, but isn't. She explained that her father was killed in his own gun store by robbers 10 years ago. :( She said she is interested in getting her permit.

Walmart
A little boy sitting in the bottom of a grocery cart spotted me from about 25 foot away and said, "Hey, look...That's guy's got a pistol....Aaaaaaawesome..." Later, when I was closer to them his sister who was pushing him in the cart came up to me and said in a dramatic and whispery voice, "Are you a cop?" I said, "No." They were with their grandparents, who seemed amused. "Why do you have a pistol, then?", she said, with a genuinely puzzled look. "Just to protect myself", I said. Her grandfather then barked, "From kids like you!"
 

FTG-05

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
441
Location
TN
Well Rats, I thought I saw another TN OCer, but unfortunately didn't see his badge until he got up to leave.

Honey's restaurant, south side of Fayetteville square, around 1 PM today, having lunch with our bankers.
 

Silvertongue

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
213
Location
Marion County, Tennessee
While at work this evening, I noticed a customer's muzzle under the bottom of his shirt. After asking him whether he required assistance, I asked him what he was carrying.

His response: "What?"

What kind of pistol are you carrying?

"You can see that? Uh, 1911."

He looked nervous, so I offered him a fist bump and a "H3ll yeah" to get him at ease. He pulled up his overshirt and showed it off. It happened to be an all-stainless Springfield TRP in a Galco chocolate-colored leather holster.

I said that with a beautiful setup like that, he should tuck his shirt behind his gun and show that puppy off. He said he'd been thinking about it, so if I see him again I'll direct him to this site.
 

SgtScott31

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
158
Location
Nashville
So the correct thing that should have happened was for the plainclothes officer to say "Excuse me sir, I'm sorry, but the pastor doesn't allow open carry on church property. You will have to go and conceal, put it in your vehicle, or leave".


Pretty simple and straight forward for a professional police officer do whether on or off duty.


But all you can do is make defensive statements to protect the 'thin Blue line' who were borderline incompetent, intimidating and threatening.

Does it really matter whether it was handled inside or outside? What if the holder became irate? It has nothing to do with "protecting" the thin, blue line. Obviously everyone here is going to back the carrier 110% because it's a pro-open carry forum. I give a different opinion on how it could have been handled and you expect me to be surprised that I get hammered about "protecting the cops?" I'm one of a few LEOs who comes around every so often to give a LEO's perspective. Your opinion based on the facts of any incident mentioned here carries no more weight than my own.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Does it really matter whether it was handled inside or outside? What if the holder became irate? It has nothing to do with "protecting" the thin, blue line. Obviously everyone here is going to back the carrier 110% because it's a pro-open carry forum. I give a different opinion on how it could have been handled and you expect me to be surprised that I get hammered about "protecting the cops?" I'm one of a few LEOs who comes around every so often to give a LEO's perspective. Your opinion based on the facts of any incident mentioned here carries no more weight than my own.
Yes it matters where and how it was handled. An officer brings with him the implied authority - extralegal.

"What if" (oh please no "what ifs") the holder might become irate? Do you apply that in all situations and remove the actor to a safer place when there is no perception of a crime? Seems to me he was guilty of doing nothing illegal or suspicious. Conclusion: probable that you are defending your actions whether they are warranted or not - if that is not TBL it is at least CYA.

The value of a poster's statements is definitely weighted by past responses - not all posts/opinions are equal.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
Does it really matter whether it was handled inside or outside? What if the holder became irate? It has nothing to do with "protecting" the thin, blue line. Obviously everyone here is going to back the carrier 110% because it's a pro-open carry forum. I give a different opinion on how it could have been handled and you expect me to be surprised that I get hammered about "protecting the cops?" I'm one of a few LEOs who comes around every so often to give a LEO's perspective. Your opinion based on the facts of any incident mentioned here carries no more weight than my own.

SGTSCOTT, it is all well and good that you might be a LEO. but don't expect special treatment for it. after all you are just a government worker. like i said nothing special, your opinion is the same as any other, and as long as you don't name call, or attack some one personally, then i will fight to make sure you can express it

if peole disagree with you, you are not being "hammered", it could be your training to think your word should be "IT". there are lots of people on here that will disagree with you, and that is the way it should be.
if you are right a bout everything then you are probably wrong somewhere
 

SgtScott31

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
158
Location
Nashville
Yes it matters where and how it was handled. An officer brings with him the implied authority - extralegal.

"What if" (oh please no "what ifs") the holder might become irate? Do you apply that in all situations and remove the actor to a safer place when there is no perception of a crime? Seems to me he was guilty of doing nothing illegal or suspicious. Conclusion: probable that you are defending your actions whether they are warranted or not - if that is not TBL it is at least CYA.

The value of a poster's statements is definitely weighted by past responses - not all posts/opinions are equal.

Yes, there are "what ifs" involved in any police contact, particulary with a weapon involved. It's easy to sit back and base opinions on the situation after the fact on an internet forum. Particularly after it was established that he could legally carry the weapon and that he didn't have any ill intent. Last I checked LEOs don't have mind-reading ability and have to make quick decisions based on the limited information they have. They took the guy outside to verify he could legally carry the weapon he had and to inform him the church didn't want the weapon inside. I don't see why that was such an issue to some here. I wouldn't have lectured the OP, but I don't see how taking him outside to discuss the situation and verify the legality of him carrying is somehow "bad" police work.

SGTSCOTT, it is all well and good that you might be a LEO. but don't expect special treatment for it.

Ha, I don't expect any special treatment here. Actually on oc.org it's normally the opposite when it comes to LEOs.
 

FTG-05

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
441
Location
TN
Yes, there are "what ifs" involved in any police contact, particulary with a weapon involved. It's easy to sit back and base opinions on the situation after the fact on an internet forum. Particularly after it was established that he could legally carry the weapon and that he didn't have any ill intent. Last I checked LEOs don't have mind-reading ability and have to make quick decisions based on the limited information they have. They took the guy outside to verify he could legally carry the weapon he had and to inform him the church didn't want the weapon inside. I don't see why that was such an issue to some here. I wouldn't have lectured the OP, but I don't see how taking him outside to discuss the situation and verify the legality of him carrying is somehow "bad" police work.



Ha, I don't expect any special treatment here. Actually on oc.org it's normally the opposite when it comes to LEOs.

Read: He's guilty until proved innocent. Sucks that that's the way TN law reads. Majorly.
 

OngoingFreedom

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Middle TN
Read: he shows evidence that he MAY have committed a crime and MAY be investigated by the po-po (IAW TN Code).

Sheesh.

TN law does need to change but this is what IS, for now.

TN police have done an outstanding job of not taking advantage of this. Show a little appreciation, and go after your legislature for change.


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independence

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
339
Location
Tennessee
OC'd to a couple of family outdoor social events at private residences recently. The first one was a bonfire at the residence of someone I had never met. My friend was there and introduced me to the home owner who promptly said, "Alright!! I like that!...Carrying!!" - while pointing at my pistol.

The second one was a barbeque at a friends house with a lot of people there. A friend said to me, "You expecting trouble?" I said back to her something like, "Statistically? Yes. Today in particular? Not any more than any other day." She seemed satisfied with that answer. Later, a friend's little son began staring at my pistol. This continued for a while, before he finally said in an are-you-crazy voice, "Why do you have a gun??!" I say, "Just to protect myself". He sits there for even longer staring at it and then says in an almost mocking voice, "Can you give me a specific instance in which you would need a gun to protect yourself?" I said something like, "Yeah, if I was in Walmart and some bad guys came in and started shooting up the place I would then have the means to try and protect myself." He said, "Yeah. I guess." and seemed to be genuinely rethinking his position. He then stood there even longer staring at my firearm. Finally, but only after a long time, he seemed satisfied and walked away.
 
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independence

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
339
Location
Tennessee
Huddle House again

OCed at a Huddle House with my wife tonight. She was a little apprehensive about me OCing because it was 9:30 PM or so and she thought they would think I was a bad guy with it being after dark and all. No complaints against the wife, though. She has been very good about my OCing. I reassured her that everything would be fine and that I OCed at a another Huddle House after dark the other day with no problems.

Everything went fine. I sat facing the door, as I always try to do at restaurants. Our booth also was close to the door. I think one or two of the servers noticed the OC but there were no problems with them. Later, a woman customer was leaving and coughed a rather big cough right in my direction without covering her mouth right before going out the door. I waved my hand in some fruitless hope that I could divert the germ-laden airflow. I don't think she liked that. She continued to walk out but sneered rather obviously at me. It was quite a hateful sneer, if I do say so myself. Even after she had fully exited the building she turned around and sneered at me through both layers of glass doors. She then left in her car. I didn't mean to be rude by waving my hand but I just have this pet peeve of being coughed on. Yuck! Anyway, as she was pulling out, I told my wife what happened because she hadn't noticed. My wife told me that she was probably sneering because I was OCing. I started to think that she might be right. She might have first saw me wave my hand and then noticed the gun, which increased her negativity.

Anyway, she seemed like a nice gal when she was sitting at a table earlier. It's amazing how much hate guns can stir up in people! Maybe guns really are evil. ;)
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
OC'd to a couple of family outdoor social events at private residences recently. The first one was a bonfire at the residence of someone I had never met. My friend was there and introduced me to the home owner who promptly said, "Alright!! I like that!...Carrying!!" - while pointing at my pistol.

The second one was a barbeque at a friends house with a lot of people there. A friend said to me, "You expecting trouble?" I said back to her something like, "Statistically? Yes. Today in particular? Not any more than any other day." She seemed satisfied with that answer. Later, a friend's little son began staring at my pistol. This continued for a while, before he finally said in an are-you-crazy voice, "Why do you have a gun??!" I say, "Just to protect myself". He sits there for even longer staring at it and then says in an almost mocking voice, "Can you give me a specific instance in which you would need a gun to protect yourself?" I said something like, "Yeah, if I was in Walmart and some bad guys came in and started shooting up the place I would then have the means to try and protect myself." He said, "Yeah. I guess." and seemed to be genuinely rethinking his position. He then stood there even longer staring at my firearm. Finally, but only after a long time, he seemed satisfied and walked away.

I got into a debate with one of our employees who is from the Caribbean somewhere. Anyway, he asked a similar question..... "well, when's the last time you had to use your gun"? Well, i havent changed a spare tire in about 10 years but i still carry one..... Sure, it's very unlikely for something bad to happen but if it does, you'll sure be glad it's there.

My wife used to kind of poke fun at me for keeping my firearm on me at the house since we live in a small town with very little crime. A few months ago, a couple thugs kicked in a neighbors front door at 10:30 am on friday and did a snatch and run. She said, never take that thing off again! :lol:
 
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