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Thread: Oklahoma...get a life

  1. #1
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Oklahoma...get a life

    Here is one for the record books.

    Coming back from Texas I had a flat on Hwy 69 just outside of Durant OK…My son had apparently taken my jack so I could not change my tire. I was in the process of calling my service to come help me and an Oklahoma State Patrol car pulled up behind me. I was so happy, it was a very small shoulder and I had already told my 16yr old daughter to get out of the car so if we got hit she would not be in danger.

    So, I am on the phone, trooper walks up to me and motioned me for my ID…WHAT???….I am on a short shoulder, and this guy wants to check my ID!!! Not fearing anything, I fumbled around, while talking to my service and gave him my DL…

    After running my plates, my Dl…he came back…I am still on the phone. When he brought a jack with him I was relieved. I got off the phone after cancelling the service and told Officer Michael Green that I didn’t want to violate any laws and that I was carrying a sidearm. I thought he was going to shoot me on the spot!!!

    I informed the officer that there was round in the chamber. He still took my weapon, dropped the mag and turned it to himself to check the SN….POINTED AT HIMSELF….he then racked the slide and the chambered round came out. He yells at me…”You said that there was not one in the chamber”. I told him that i indeed informed him of the fact. He says’ You need to be more clear about that”….got to love the informed LEO’S!!

    Here comes the fun part…He takes my weapon puts it UNDER a blanket on the passenger seat where my daughter was, and puts the mag and the extra round in the glove box.

    I change my tire, gave him back his jack and he ask me to get in the patrol car because he has to fill out paperwork for the “assistance stop”.

    He then tells my daughter to get back in car…..guess what, she sat on!!!! That is right, my unloaded weapon. She took the weapon and placed it on the dash in front of the passenger seat.

    Now I am in his car and he starts to give me the right act about concealed carry and the like. Meanwhile my 16yr old daughter is in a car with a weapon and knows how to use it…..what an idiot.

    Officer Green calls the DA of Bryan County and wants to know what he can charge me with because I didn’t notify him of the weapon…Basically it was told to me, that if I let him search my car for drugs, they would lower the fine…I don’t do drugs and don’t have any…so what the hell. I just want to go home.

    Officer Greene, leaving me in his car, goes up to my daughter and starts giving her the right act, “ If you lie to me, and I find illegal drugs in the car, I don’t care if you’re a 16 year old little girl I will take your dad to jail and take you to a shelter and have your mom come pick you up.”( my daughter told me this)…He told my daughter to get out of the car and then freaked out!!!…He couldn’t find the weapon that he put on the seat…..yelled at my daughter, which told him it was on the dash…..still…got to love these “well trained officers”

    After another 45mn of ripping through all the Christmas presents and finding nothing Officer Green returns to the car….but it is not over with yet!!!

    Officer Green informs me that I had been arrested for “discharging a firearm while intoxicated” and that I will have to submit to “blow” especially because I have beer on ice in a cooler.

    First of all I was never arrested for anything of the sort…..but I blew because I wasn’t drinking…I just wanted out of there…

    After the blow, he then starts giving me a lecture again on how I should know that I “have to notify” police officers that I am carrying a weapon. I politely told him that this is not required in Missouri and he told me that it was a “National” law….WHAT?….What the hell do they teach these idiots?..

    Officer Green kept mentioning that he has a concealed carry license and that we both went to the same training and I should know better. Again I just wanted out of there, but I should have told him that the Florida license requires only a DD214 to get a license.

    Here is the kicker, and no one should ever doubt that this is a money making machine. Officer Green said that if I wanted to I could go to the courthouse right now and pay the fine and I could be on my way…..I told him to write the ticket and I will handle it another way…

    Question is....if I was a suspect of "drugs" and Officer Green was not either on a money expedition or a vendetta for people that carry weapons, then why was I not physically searched, nor my daughter?

    I got a ticket for failure to notify….$211.50 fine. Title 21 Sec.1290.8.C

    I have sent a FOI to the OK Dept of Public Safety for the Video and Audio recordings and I will keep you informed.

    Just for a side note...the whole time I was wearing my "I have a gun under this shirt"...t-shirt
    Last edited by zekester; 01-08-2012 at 11:04 AM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  2. #2
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Member since Nov 2010 and yet you have learned absolutely nothing.

    Hopefully you will take advantage of this site in the new year.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  3. #3
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Looks like you do have to say you are armed in OK:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oklahoma.pdf
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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  4. #4
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Yess.....you are correct....I was on the phone at the time....worrying about 18 wheelers hitting my daughter....NO Excuse....but damn...I told him when I could.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    There are so many things you did wrong, I am not sure where to start. I mean you just did whatever the officer told you to do. The whole situation sounds strange. You let him search your car? WHY????????If they have a legitimate/legal reason they're not going to ask. If they ask, say NO. Why would to submit to a breath test if you knew you hadn't been drinking? How quickly after you were contacted did you notify?
    Last edited by thebigsd; 01-01-2012 at 02:58 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  6. #6
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Whoa now, not so fast with the guilty feeling. Read the Oklahoma Code...closely.

    Oklahoma TITLE 21 § 1290.8. Possession of License Required-Notification to Police of Gun
    ....
    C. It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. No person shall be required to identify himself or herself as a concealed handgun licensee when no handgun is in the person’s possession or in any vehicle in which the person is driving or is a passenger. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed ninety (90) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. In addition to any criminal prosecution for a violation of the provisions of this subsection, the licensee shall be subject to a six-month suspension of the license and an administrative fine of Fifty Dollars ($50.00), upon a hearing and determination by the Bureau that the person is in violation of the provisions of this subsection.

    So....Forgive me for asking, but - -
    A).....Was the officer placing you under arrest because he had probable cause to believe you had violated a section of the Oklahoma Code?

    B).....Was the officer detaining you because he had a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you were engaging or had recently engaged or were about to engage in illegal conduct?

    C).....Was the officer conducting a routine traffic stop in order to investigate a violation of the Oklahoma legal code in regards to traffic offenses?


    Officer Friendly had no more official contact with you than if he were offering you a light for your cigarette because you had none, or holding your umbrella while you tied your shoes, or lending you a jack to change a tire because you ... err... wait, that sounds familiar...
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-01-2012 at 06:22 PM.

  7. #7
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    NO talking.
    NO searching.
    NO blowing.
    NO, NO, NO, NO, NOOOOOOOoooooooooo.

    Sounds like your case is good. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I would suggest OP get a good lawyer to help not only fight his citation, but also to file a counter suit for violation of 4th amendment rights.
    He voluntarily gave that up when he consented...

  9. #9
    mattwestm
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    A similar thing happened to my friend in Sequoyah county, Oklahoma. He was driving from Arizona to Tennessee to visit his parents. The state police officer pulled him over for "swerving". My friend claims that the officer had been following him for several minutes before the lights came on. Instead of a generic traffic check (ID, registration, etc.), he was questioned about having drugs in the car. After declining to have his vehicle searched, another car showed up with a K-9. Of course, they claimed that the dog alerted that drugs were present. After searching the car and finding nothing, they decided to charge him with reckless driving.

    My friend drove all the way back to OK to attend the court date, but the officer was not present. Because of this, the case was thrown out.

    Oklahoma is a big drug trafficking state since it's basically the mid-point between the East, West, and Mexico. And... I-40 runs the entire length of the state. I'm willing to bet that they pull the majority of cars with out-of-state license plates. I read an article about TN cops pulling out-of-staters along I-40 and confiscating any cash over $500.

    I wonder if this stop would be considered a routine traffic stop. The engine was turned off and the driver was out of the car. The only thing that might make this situation a traffic stop is that he was on a road instead of a parking lot.

    I would definitely lawyer up. A charge like this might put your CC permit at risk. Also, many people do not realize that simply paying a ticket does not make it go away. In fact, you are essentially pleading guilty.

    If I were the OP, I would have refused to provide any identification (OK since you were not operating the vehicle at the time) and let the officer know that I simply had a flat tire and would be on my way soon and that his assistance was not needed.

    Here in NC, we have a "must notify" statute, but I hope to move to a "non notify" state in a few months (either IA or MO). It seems that notifying a LEO turns a simple traffic stop into a major event. The only time I would notify a LEO is if I were asked to exit the vehicle and the firearm were on my person.
    Last edited by mattwestm; 01-02-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    Many places will fine you if the second a cop steps out and you do not notify him/her you have a weapon. It's not for safety, but to make money by charging you with failure to notify. OK is notorious for pulling out of staters over. Especially if the state allows CC because they know if the first words out of your mouth are not I HAVE MY CONCEAL CARRY AND MY WEAPON, they got ya for some cash.

  11. #11
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    Sorry your trip involved a moron Zeke.

    Glad all are safe and it is just a pain in the ass to have to deal with.

    The "require to notify" laws are so freakin stupid. WTF, do they think a cop killer is going to scream "I have a gun" before he begins blasting? At what point does ANY LEO EVER think a person is unarmed... AFTER THEY HAVE SEARCHED THEM!

    I guess they just want to have the citizens remind cops to do their job properly and safely.

    Perhaps your lawyer can ,make it all go away quick.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Yes, but the question a good lawyer could push is whether or not a reasonable person would take the officer's actions as orders or as a request. Would a reasonable person feel they were required to comply, or being asked to comply? Would a reasonable person feel that they could safely refuse the officer's "requests?"

    Granted, this exact question is why it is vitally important to not blindly comply with an officer's request without first asking either "are you detaining me" or "am I free to go?" But, just because the person does not ask those questions does not mean that the game is over. It just means the person has to work harder at proving to the court/jury that a reasonable person would ascertain that they were being detained given the totality of circumstances.
    Free to go where?

    Coming back from Texas I had a flat on Hwy 69 just outside of Durant OK…My son had apparently taken my jack so I could not change my tire. - zekester
    zekester, get a lawyer to address the fine. After that don't waste your time or money on redress of wrongs. It is unlikely that redress will be achieved based on what you have posted.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The part of the law that applys to 'out-of-staters.
    §21-1290.26. - RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY

    <snip>

    Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized
    for concealed carry upon the authority of a reciprocal state is
    authorized to continue to carry a concealed firearm in this state;
    provided the firearm remains fully concealed from detection and view,
    and that upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state,
    the person discloses the fact that he or she is in possession of a
    concealed firearm
    pursuant to a valid concealed carry weapons permit
    or license issued in another state.

    http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cg...1-1290.26.html
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The part of the law that applys to 'out-of-staters.
    Corrections: applies; 'out-of-staters'.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  15. #15
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    §21-1290.26. - RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY
    ... Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed carry upon the authority of a reciprocal state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed firearm in this state; provided the firearm remains fully concealed from detection and view, and that upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person discloses the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm pursuant to a valid concealed carry weapons permit or license issued in another state.
    The part of the law that applys to 'out-of-staters.
    I can see it now - -
    Oklahoma officer "Hey fellah, did you know your shoelace is unti---- "
    Out of state visitor "I've Got a Gun!"
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-03-2012 at 12:37 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I wasn't going to go there....
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The part of the law that applys to 'out-of-staters.
    Quote Originally Posted by OK Law
    §21-1290.26. - RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY

    <snip>

    Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized
    for concealed carry upon the authority of a reciprocal state is
    authorized to continue to carry a concealed firearm in this state;
    provided the firearm remains fully concealed from detection and view,
    and that upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state,
    the person discloses the fact that he or she is in possession of a
    concealed firearm pursuant to a valid concealed carry weapons permit
    or license issued in another state.


    http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cg...1-1290.26.html
    The important part, imo, in bold. If it's pursuant to the req's of the license of the "another state", wouldn't it follow that he does NOT have to inform, since in Missouri (the other state) he also would not be required to inform?

    DISCLAIMER: IANAL.

  18. #18
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I guess you could be right, yet the trooper saw it differently. It seems to me that the 'pursuant' part means, or will be interpreted, that you are concealing a weapon on your states' CCW permit absent a OK CCW permit.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  19. #19
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Should the argument of §21-1290.8. (NOTIFICATION) v. §21-1290.26. (RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT) arise one is going to have to convince either a jury or a judge that an out-of-stater having to notify an officer that he is armed when the officer comes over to play poker, when he asks if it's gonna rain tomorrow, or if he says "gee, that's a cute baby" was NOT the intent behind 21.1290.26.
    If judge or jury can be convinced that the intent of -.26 was to place out-of-stater's under the same notification onus as Oklahomans, then there is an excellent chance of the case being dismissed as there was no -.08 violation according the way the law was written.

    It all depends on what charge was used, if it was -.8, then that's the only one you have to argue against.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-03-2012 at 07:20 PM.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I wonder if the OK notify statute would be satisified if any time an OK LEO asked for ID and you are carrying you provided your CCW as the ID. Although, I guess if the cop wants to be a jerk he could say that your having a CCW isn't the same as notifying that you are actually carrying. Of course, as a MO resident on a MO CCW carrying as an out-of-stater in OK, it probably beats screaming "I've got a gun" at every LEO you have any contact with even standing in line at Taco Bell.

  21. #21
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    After carefule consideration.....

    I am going to have Jury Trial.....

    Will keep u informed...
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  22. #22
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    I realize that the 4th is out of the question....but the fact that I was pre-occopied and the video will show this, I think will win the day...along with Officer Green seems to be more intrested in giving me a ticket than actully protecting himself....I pray for Officer Green.....if he did this on a legitimate stop, and the bad guys wanted to take him out.....it would be a bad case indeed...

    To Officer Green:

    I appriciate what you do....I thank you for your service and the sacrifice you do everyday. Please be more careful in the future!!!
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    I wonder if the OK notify statute would be satisified if any time an OK LEO asked for ID and you are carrying you provided your CCW as the ID. Although, I guess if the cop wants to be a jerk he could say that your having a CCW isn't the same as notifying that you are actually carrying. Of course, as a MO resident on a MO CCW carrying as an out-of-stater in OK, it probably beats screaming "I've got a gun" at every LEO you have any contact with even standing in line at Taco Bell.

    I would worry you would wind up with a situation similar to the one in Canton OH. If you remember the video, the gentleman kept trying to hand the officer his permit, and the officer kept ignoring his attempts. When the gentleman finally succeeded the officer hit the roof because he was not informed "immediately". I would hope no other officer would respond as horribly as the Canton officer, but is it worth the risk?
    AUDE VIDE TACE

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    Officer Green calls the DA of Bryan County and wants to know what he can charge me with because I didn’t notify him of the weapon…Basically it was told to me, that if I let him search my car for drugs, they would lower the fine…I don’t do drugs and don’t have any…so what the hell. I just want to go home.


    Why in the world would you let him search your car?

    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post

    To Officer Green:

    I appriciate what you do....I thank you for your service and the sacrifice you do everyday. Please be more careful in the future!!!


    You not only appreciate what the officer does, but you want to thank him for his "service?" Am I missing something here? An officer abuses the power invested in him by the people - and you want to thank him for this?
    Last edited by Schlitz; 01-08-2012 at 11:13 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  25. #25
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    FAIL. Big ol' truckload of FAIL.

    If I had a nickel for every time I heard something along the lines of, "I know I shouldn't have consented, but I was (insert excuse here: i.e. "....wanting to get home" or "....in a hurry to eat my ice cream" etc.).

    Of course! EVERYONE KNOWS EATING ICE CREAM IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!

    How'd that wonderful "cooperation" work out for you?

    You wanted to be on your way so much that you willingly handed the guy wanting to keep you detained for as long as possible every opportunity to keep you from actually being on your way.

    "Hello, officer! I'm in such a hurry, I will blindly offer you every excuse you need to detain me for hours!".

    (Then thank you for doing so.)

    Those that CHOOSE TO ASSIST the police in screwing them over have no justification to cry about it afterwards. You'll get no sympathy from me for GETTING EXACTLY WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO VOLUNTEER FOR.

    The fact that an officer pulls up behind a motorist in need of assistance, and instead of offering aid...SEARCHES FOR ANY MEANS AVAILABLE TO SCREW HIM OVER is dispicable and deserving of outrage. You have my condolences on that matter. I wish you the best in your trial. Hopefully, you'll be exhonerated. However, by your cooperation, you have willingly placed yourself, by your own actions, into the party who needs exhonerating. Wouldn't it be nice to require the officer to exhonerate his actions?
    Last edited by Superlite27; 01-10-2012 at 10:01 AM. Reason: repaire misspelinges

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