West Virginia Open carry with magazine and in full battery?
I don't see anything on West Virginia's website saying this isn't allowed...
Can anyone please confirm this?
If it is not stated as illegal, then it is legal. Fully loaded w/rd chambered - yes.Originally Posted by Alexxx13
Some Cities were grandfathered when the Carry Law was passed in West Virginia. The the only cities in the state that have Ordinances with the force of law against the carrying and/or possession of firearms outside the state restrictions are listed in the link following:.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/westvirginia.pdf
Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.
Yata hey
Welcome to OCDO!!! Stick around and you will learn a lot!!! We do have state sub-forums for state-specific questions so you may want to check that out.
In regards to your question: The answer is yes, it is legal to openly carry a handgun in West Virginia.
"West Virginia is a traditional open carry state but there are some grandfathered local open carry bans not preempted by state law, such as the City of Charleston. There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws, but any local laws passed before preemption remain in effect."
Here is some more information:
http://opencarry.com/wv.html
If you are not already a member I would encourage you to join the West Virginia Citizens Defense League.
http://www.wvcdl.org
Last edited by thebigsd; 01-01-2012 at 03:11 PM.
"When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."
Do I have to dismount when getting into my truck?
Dismount = leaving vehicle. Do you perhaps mean disarm?
Most important aspect here is to learn to research, especially the basics, so that you have 1st hand knowledge of the laws. Presume that you are of an age and experience level consistent with legally carrying a firearm.
Deleted erroneous cite here.
Follow the links for your state on these interactive maps - they are a great primer for getting started and will answer many of your questions.
http://www.opencarry.org/maps.html
Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-13-2012 at 12:39 AM. Reason: bad cite
Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.
Yata hey
Do be aware that the WV State Police and the WV AG have decided that Open Carry is only legal for WV Residents.
See Page 4 at http://www.wvago.gov/pdf/brochures/2009_gunbrochure.pdf
_______________________
Stay Safe,
Gary Slider
Co-Owner Handgunlaw.us
Member Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network
I'm a pretty smart person, but this law stuff is just hard for me to read. So when I'm open carrying I need to disarm myself before getting into a motor vehicle? or go concealed since i have a CCL in WV and am a resident. I called the sheriff's department and they referred me to the state troopers office who had to transfer me three times. I don't believe them just off the hand by looking at other forums and watching video's of just how much they lie to you. They said I have to disarm before I enter my vehicle concealed or open carry. I know thats not correct for concealed. So can someone help me out here.
Jumping Jehosephat on a pogo-stick and his Bastard Brother Harry...
How many times am I going to have to dispel this bogus rumor?
This is simply untrue, and if I remember correctly, WVCDL has been hounding the WV AG's office for YEARS to update this stupid, untrue, and flatly false brochure.
Apparently, the AG hasn't read the WV State Police's website which CLEARLY states that OC is legal in WV, and DOES NOT make any residency stipulation:
http://www.statepolice.wv.gov/about/...isionFAQs.aspx
Q. Is it lawful to carry weapons (e.g. rifles, shotguns, and pistols) in my vehicle when I travel in West Virginia?
A. Individuals who possess a valid concealed carry permit may carry a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle for purpose of self defense only. West Virginia permits anyone who can lawfully possess a handgun to carry an unconcealed handgun. If you choose to carry an unconcealed handgun in your vehicle and are stopped by a law-enforcement officer, you must understand that that the weapon will immediately attract the attention of the police officer. The presence of the weapon may lead to action by the officer to ensure his or her safety such as the drawing of his or her weapon, ordering you from the vehicle, and/or performing a pat-down search. Weapons intended for hunting must be unloaded and in a case when transported in a vehicle. It is strongly recommended that, if you do not have a valid concealed carry permit, while traveling in a vehicle, that all firearms be unloaded and cased in a location in the vehicle that is not readily accessible to any of the occupants. Any ammunition should be stored in a separate location from the firearm.
See my post in another WV forum thread on JUST this subject, which ALSO has the link I provide below to the WV State Police's website that refutes this claim.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1655265
OC is 100% legal in WV for ANYONE who can legally possess a firearm, and requires NO permit.
The WV AG has not issued any definitive opinion on the matter--they did publish an "opinion" a few years ago, but it basically said that the AG's office was not going to offer an opinion.
This silly little brochure is NOT an "official opinion" of the AG's office, nor would it stand up in court as holding the weight of law. It is a sad mistake, a disgusting bit of anti-2A propaganda with NO basis in Statute, Case Law or the Constitution of WV, and it needs to be corrected.
What is it going to take to get the WV AG to revise this brochure--a freaking lawsuit?
Nowhere in WV statute is it stated that OC (or CC) is prohibited to non-residents. If something is not prohibited, then it is legal--that is how our legal system works here. Laws to not "give us permission to do something". They only delineate what is prohibited.
This whole cluster-foxtrot started a few years ago when a State Trooper (I think it was in Wheeling) got a burr in his saddle about citizens OCing, and started harassing EVERY OCer he encountered. Eventually he hassled an out-of-state OCer, and HIS interpretation was that since WV does not issue non-resident Concealed Carry permits, then out-of-state people can't OC. Apparently this Trooper didn't know (or didn't care) that OC in West Virginia DOES NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT, and therefore WVs CC statutes do NOT apply to OC...
I OC all the time in WV and I haven't been a resident there since 2005. I've OCed in Wheeling, Sistersville, Glen Dale, Moundsville, Elm Grove, out at the Highlands, at Dallas Pike, in Morgantown, in Huntington, Beckley, Berkeley Springs, Harpers Ferry, Martinsburg, Charlestown, Bluefield--heck, there aren't many places of note in WV that I HAVEN'T Open Carried in the last 3 years, and it has NEVER been a problem.
I have a nephew who is a State Trooper, and I have OCed in front of him at family events, and he only said something to me once--asked why I was OCing rather than CCing. When I told him that he had gotten too beefy for me to carry on my back for protection, he chuckled, and that was the end of that discussion...
Last edited by Dreamer; 01-02-2012 at 07:56 PM.
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
Alexx13--the State Police in Morgantown are not only lying to you, but they are well-known to be ignorant of the law with regards to WV gun laws--either that or they are INTENTIONALLY giving people false information and are using color-of-law bullying to discourage OC and lawful CC in vehicles with this sort of bogus info. In other words--NEVER ASK A COP for legal advice. When they don't like the law, they make stuff up to suit their own beliefs. When they don't know, they make stuff up to maintain the image of "authority".
If you want legal advice, ASK A LAWYER. That's why they go to law school and have to pass the Bar exam--and LEOs DO NOT.
Cops don't need to know the law--they just need to THINK they know the law. When they make a mistake, the courts sort it out.
When a lawyer makes a mistake, his client can sue him for misrepresentation, and that can cost a lot of money, and maybe even get him disbarred.
When a cop makes a mistake, it means that the State AG's office gets a lot of guaranteed overtime in their defense, and the cop gets a lot of paid leave away from patrol to appear in court--win-win for them both, even if they lose the case...
Let me state this again, so that it REALLY sinks in:
NEVER ask a LEO for legal advice.
Here's the thing--if you are OCing, but sitting in the driver's seat of a car, then some LEOs may "interpret" that as being "concealed" because they can't see your gun when they approach your vehicle. IF they can't see it, it is concealed, and it is therefore covered by your valid CC permit. And if you have a CC permit (issued by WV or ANY other state that WV has reciprocity with) then carrying concealed in a car is 100% legal. Period. End of discussion. Regardless fo the style of holster you are wearing, or how "concealed" or "open" that firearm is before you enter the car, or after you exit the vehicle.
If having an OC gun that was interpreted as being concealed by your seating position was NOT covered by your CC permit, then what exactly DOES the permit cover--only firearms concealed by an untucked shirt? Or only firearms in a IWB holster, under a suit jacket? Or only a firearm in a pocket holster in your pants pocket? Where do they draw the line as to what "concealed" is, and what "kind" of concealment is acceptable?
Well, the answer to that question is that LEOs DO NOT have the authority to tell you what sort of "concealed" is acceptable if you have a permit. If you have a permit, and they can't see it, then it's legally concealed. End of discussion. Period.
You see how ridiculous their line of thinking becomes if you just use a TINY bit of logic against it?
If you have a CC permit--issued by ANY STATE that WV recognizes, then loaded, holstered carry of ANY MODE--OC or CC--while driving a vehicle is 100% legal in WV. There is NO stipulation in the WV concealed carry statute that says you must not have access to your loaded firearm in a vehicle if you have a CC permit. In fact, it is quite the opposite--one of the PRIMARY REASONs people get CC permits in WV (and many other states) is so they can carry in their cars for self-defense, and NOT have to unload and lock up their handguns.
The Morgantown State Police need to be reported to the AG's office for giving you false information, so that they can be re-trained and educated as to the TRUTH about what WV concealed carry law REALLY says...
Last edited by Dreamer; 01-02-2012 at 08:29 PM.
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
WOW....thank you so much for that I really appreciate it. I will most certainly report it.
One more thing. What if i was out at dinner ocing or ccing and I wanted to have a beer with dinner?
Also, please be aware that although WV is NOT a "duty to notify" state (meaning that if you are approached or stopped by an LEO and are CCing, you are NOT required to notify them that you have a permit and are carrying), many folks deal with traffic stops when they are carrying like this:
Seeing the flashing lights in my mirror, I pull over.
I immediately get my registration, insurance card, DL and CC permit out and have it in my left hand, sticking out of the cracked window (with the CC permit ON TOP of the stack), with my right hand on the wheel in a 1:00 or 2:00 position.
When the officer comes up to my window, before he says ANYTHING, I volunteer that I have a valid Concealed Carry permit, and am currently carrying, while offering my stack of "paperwork" to him.
Generally, LEOs will be glad that you tell them up-front that you have a permit and that you are carrying. It usually isn't an issue, unless you are unfortunate enough to get a REALLY rogue cop, or you were doing something MONUMENTALLY stupid in order to get pulled over in the first place.
Most LEOs would rather know you have the permit and be notified that you are carrying up-front, than find out by seeing it on their own half way through the process of a traffic stop. When a cop sees a gun that he didn't know was there before, he tends to get REALLY twitchy, and that's usually when things go south REALLY quickly--even with good cops...
Since you live in Morgantown, my suggestion is this: if you want to carry all the time, your best strategy is to move to another jurisdiction...
But if that isn't a practical solution, then I'd suggest you start spending a LOT of time on this forum, and start asking a LOT of questions. And you need to learn to read the law. And you need to commit certain parts of the law to memory (or at least download them to your smart phone, or carry paper copies in your car.)
And make friends with a good firearms-law-specialist attorney, just in case...
Good luck and Carry On.
Last edited by Dreamer; 01-02-2012 at 09:01 PM.
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
I'm not going to tell you how to run your life. However West Virginia law is silent on the subject of drinking while CCing. Since there is no specific law AGAINST it, it is legal.
However, just because something is legal doesn't mean it is the smart, prudent, or responsible thing to do.
Personally, if I am carrying outside my own home, I NEVER drink alcohol. Not even a single glass of beer or wine with dinner.
First off, I know my limits, and I know that I'm a tremendous light-weight.
Second, I'm not going to give ANY over-zealous "anti" cop, prosecutor, or jackass patron an excuse to mess with me. I don't care how tasty that adult beverage may be--I can drink iced tea if I'm carrying. I carry because I am RESPONSIBLE--for my own safety, and that of my loved ones, and for the Security of a Free State.
And those things are all WAY more important to me than any mug of suds ever could be.
But that's just my way of doing things. And I'm not going to tell YOU how to live your life.
But you might want to SERIOUSLY evaluate the potential consequences of the decisions you make while carrying.
I have found that since I started carrying (CC and OC), I have become a LOT more responsible, and I plan my day's events with a lot more thought, because I HAVE TO, in order to stay legal.
Just a little something for you to think about...
Last edited by Dreamer; 01-02-2012 at 08:59 PM.
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
I really want to thank you so much for all the info. Yea moving isn't an option. I guess I just need to start reading more. If you have anything else you want to inform me about I would be very thankful.
You are welcome--it is my pleasure. I've spent several years researching WV laws (and VA, PA, OH, MD, SC, and NC) because I travel a lot in the region. As someone who carries everywhere I legally can, I NEED to know the laws, and man, can I tell you, it's crazy out there. Some things that are REQUIRED in some states, are actually ILLEGAL in others. Some things that will get you a nod and a "thumbs up" from an LEO in some cities will get you proned, shouted at, drawn on, your weapon seized, and your civil rights routinely violated in other cities (sometimes even in the same State!)...
As for WV, here are some key issues to be aware of:
Don't carry on school property--don't even just drive through the parking lot--if you are armed. That is verboten in WV...
Watch out around Charleston. They have some wacky laws down there...
Study PA laws too--you are close enough to PA that I assume you sometimes travel there--and the laws are a little different in PA than in WV.
Before you buy your next box of ammo, invest in a small digital voice recorder and learn how it works...
Work on your "polite voice". It can be VERY easy to come across as being condescending, preachy, or arrogant when you are trying to be precise, polite, and hold to the letter of the law when dealing with an LEO or store manager. You need to work on coming across as confident without sounding like an arrogant SOB. I know that this is something that I have a HUGE problem with--I tend to go into "professor mode" and start using my "lecture voice" if people try and pull BS, color-of-law crap with me, and it is sometimes difficult to not just laugh and call people idiots when they OBVIOUSLY don't know the law and are trying to make stuff up to intimidate me.
Get some training. Once you get some quality self-defense training (I mean over and above your CC permit training), you will come away being SHOCKED at how much you don't actually know. Good training is priceless, and is an investment that you really can't put a price tag on...
And my last bit of advice tonight would be to ASK QUESTIONS here on OCDO. It's easier for people to help you educate yourself if we know what situations you are concerned about. We're pretty friendly here, and several of us take great joy in helping new OCers navigate the minefield of local and state laws.
Carry On!
Last edited by Dreamer; 01-03-2012 at 12:32 AM.
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
This is a statute for the state of Ky, not WV. I do believe a firearm has to be in plain view only in WV doesnt it?
Pointy thing clicky on wrong link - not good, my bad.
Went back and so noted prior post.
Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.
Yata hey
In regards to th digital voice recorder, do I.have to inform the LEO that I'm doing so? HOw about as far as visually as well?
West Virginia is a "One Party Consent" state. AS long as ONE party in the conversation is aware it is being recorded, and gives consent (YOU), there is no legal requirement to let anyone else in the conversation know they are being recorded--audio OR video...
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/...%203%20%20.htm
W. Va. Code § 62-1D-3: Recording a wire, oral or electronic communication, or disclosing its contents, is not a violation of West Virginia law when the person recording is a party to the communication or has obtained consent from one of the parties, as long as the recording is not accompanied by a criminal or tortious intent.
Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," W. Va. Code § 62-1D-2. In West Virginia Dept. of Health and Human Resources v. Wright, the West Virginia Supreme Court held that a woman whose children's screams could be heard by neighbors nevertheless had a reasonable expectation of privacy in her home, for purposes of the wiretapping law. 453 S.E.2d 646 (1994).
Recording any such communication, or disclosing its contents with knowledge of the illegal interception, is a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than five years and a fine of not more than $10,000. An individual whose communications have been unlawfully intercepted can recover civil damages in the amount of actual damages, but not less than $100 per day of violation, along with punitive damages, attorney fees and litigation costs. W. Va. Code § 62-1D-12.
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
Dreamer,
I agree with you 100% that the WV AG can not say that open carry is for WV residents only. Handgunlaw.us is only reporting what is presented by those elected officials who represent the head of Law Enforcement in West Virginia. That line needs struck from the WV Firearms Brochure as there is no law to back it up. Handgunlaw.us reports what the lawful officials are reporting in their state. The WV AG also lists "Police Stations" as Off Limits in WV. That is not true. WV Law specifically states where firearms are not allowed to be carried and Police Stations are not listed anywhere in WV Code. But the AG Lists it as a place off limits to those with a valid Permit/License so Handgunlaw.us lists them also. I try to keep my opinion off Handgunlaw.us. I supply the information as presented by those in authority. Should I just not report that? Would I be doing the people who are not residents a service by not listing that?
WV is not the only state where elected and appointed officials are overstepping the bounds of the laws as written. But until they remove what such information Handgunlaw.us has to report it.
_______________________
Stay Safe,
Gary Slider
Co-Owner Handgunlaw.us
Member Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network
IMHO opinion the task is to disseminate accurate information in accordance with the stated laws. By quoting, repeating, or reporting such "opinions" of elected officials as factual conditions of law then a false impression of fact is perpetuated. We thereby become part of the problem.
Perhaps would be better to state what the law says and * or footnote the actual application or promotion thereof as it relates to the law.
Ex: Nothing in the statutes forbid carrying in a Police Station, but the AG lists them as off limits. That would be stating only facts too.
Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.
Yata hey
Here is the printed read from the site;
Q. Is it lawful to carry weapons (e.g. rifles, shotguns, and pistols) in my vehicle when I travel in West Virginia?
A. Individuals who possess a valid concealed carry permit may carry a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle for purpose of self defense only. West Virginia permits anyone who can lawfully possess a handgun to carry an unconcealed handgun. If you choose to carry an unconcealed handgun in your vehicle and are stopped by a law-enforcement officer, you must understand that that the weapon will immediately attract the attention of the police officer. The presence of the weapon may lead to action by the officer to ensure his or her safety such as the drawing of his or her weapon, ordering you from the vehicle, and/or performing a pat-down search. Weapons intended for hunting must be unloaded and in a case when transported in a vehicle. It is strongly recommended that, if you do not have a valid concealed carry permit, while traveling in a vehicle, that all firearms be unloaded and cased in a location in the vehicle that is not readily accessible to any of the occupants. Any ammunition should be stored in a separate location from the firearm.
http://www.statepolice.wv.gov/about/...isionFAQs.aspx
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