OT: Park Ranger Shot

Herr Heckler Koch said:

NOT! 'Nuff said.

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I am aware the majority of you are not soldiers. It was an example. Try to apply it to something in your life. I am not going to try and come up with a specific example for every single person/occupation. You are all adults and should be able to draw parellels.

Join Oath Keepers.

decklin said:

Thank you, that is part of what I was trying to get across. And who said they were being forced to wait like they were going to be executed? I am sure they only had them on their knees long enough to verify ID. It is not just for officer safety but for everyone present. It is difficult for someone to shoot if their hands are behind their head. Them being on their knees makes it difficult for the person of interest to run. It also gives you an elevated position to pull security.
The biggest thing is that you were not there and do not know what happened. It is easy to pick something apart from your keyboard. Can you honestly tell me you know exactly how you would react in this situation? I can't. And I don't know any soldier who can and all we do is train for situations.
No matter what happens or what anyone says there will always be a "better" solution.

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So they knew the shooter was an adult male yet they made all the women and kids kneel with their hands behind their heads, for what reason to make sure they were not the shooter. What a tramatic thing to do to young kids, this is what irritates me about this.

Orphan said:

So they knew the shooter was an adult male yet they made all the women and kids kneel with their hands behind their heads, for what reason to make sure they were not the shooter. What a tramatic thing to do to young kids, this is what irritates me about this.

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+1

I think most of us agree to that statement!

The "Odin" tattoo implies he is a white supremacist / separatist. That hand symbol on his chest could be a gang sign, or

The news is all but ignoring the other shooting victims, to focus almost exclusively on the Park Ranger. That is oddly manipulative and disturbing, and draws the Mt Rainer event significantly out of context.

The old park weapons ban would have done NOTHING to prevent this tragedy from occurring. Weapons are banned in schools, and yet criminals still bring them into schools and shoot people.

At least under current park rules, ordinary park customers can have the means to defend themselves -- if they so choose. Anti-gunners will try to use this incident to their own twisted ends, but I believe such attempts will fail miserable.

decklin said:

I am aware the majority of you are not soldiers. It was an example. Try to apply it to something in your life. I am not going to try and come up with a specific example for every single person/occupation. You are all adults and should be able to draw parellels.

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http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

My empathy goes out to the family and friends of Ranger Margaret Anderson.

Has everyone forgotten something??

I can't believe all the articles I have read on this and NO ONE has mentioned or brought up the fact that the National Park rules for guns HAVE to follow the state regulations wherein that park exists.

This means that the shooter having got out of his vehicle and firing a shotgun multiple times thus killing the Park Ranger was illegal to begin with. It is ILLEGAL to carry ANY LONG GUN LOADED in a vehicle in the Washington State. The ONLY thing you can carry loaded is a pistol AND THEN ONLY if you have a valid CPL.

News media and everyone else make me sick when the leave out these little, tiny IMPORTANT details. Shades the story in the direction of the political agenda.

On another note, I saw the video of the police in tactical gear rounding up everyone, placing them on their knees with hands behind their heads. WHERE THE F#CK do these a-holes think they are Afghanistan? I would most likely have gotten arrested if I was there for speaking up against this BULLSh!T type of treatment like they were hostages, terrorists or something else. MAN MY BLOOD IS BOILING OVER THAT!! Control the situation sure...freak everyone out.... AGAIN BULLSH!T!!!

^I agree 100%.

TheJeepster said:

On another note, I saw the video of the police in tactical gear rounding up everyone, placing them on their knees with hands behind their heads. WHERE THE F#CK do these a-holes think they are Afghanistan? I would most likely have gotten arrested if I was there for speaking up against this BULLSh!T type of treatment like they were hostages, terrorists or something else. MAN MY BLOOD IS BOILING OVER THAT!! Control the situation sure...freak everyone out.... AGAIN BULLSH!T!!!

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When you hire ex-military to be police officers, this is the natural consequence imho.

Dave_pro2a said:

When you hire ex-military to be police officers, this is the natural consequence imho.

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SO now you're anti-military too?

Metalhead47 said:

SO now you're anti-military too?

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I think he was merely pointing out that military training and mindset, focused on occupying lands filled with civilians who are to be proned out on the ground at the slightest threat, is totally incompatible with the [proper] mindset of peace officers, who deal with free citizens with rights to be protected.

ManInBlack said:

I think he was merely pointing out that military training and mindset, focused on occupying lands filled with civilians who are to be proned out on the ground at the slightest threat, is totally incompatible with the [proper] mindset of peace officers, who deal with free citizens with rights to be protected.

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Which is insulting to our current and former military members who are, in fact, able to tell the difference between being "in country" and being in THE country who's constitution they took an oath to uphold...


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decklin said:

SNIP
If they do not take the time to physically check each person and he was in the group then got away you and everyone else would be all over the cops for it.
If they did not put the people on lockdown and just let them leave and someone got killed for their car you and everone else would be going after the cops.

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These are political considerations.

Rights are not subject to political considerations. In fact, in a democratic republic, one of the functions of rights is to impede politically motivated policies that would limit, harm, inhibit, regulate, etc., innocent people.

All a real, pro-American, pro-liberty police commander has to do is stand up to a microphone and say: "We let those people go because that is their right and this is a free country and neither I nor my officers will violate those rights." The man would be an instant national hero. And, he'd be right.

Metalhead47 said:

Which is insulting to our current and former military members who are, in fact, able to tell the difference between being "in country" and being in THE country who's constitution they took an oath to uphold...

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Quite frankly, with the amount of training, equipment, and grants provided by the federal government, even local police forces would fit the definition of a standing army that our founders sought to prevent. "Civilian" police forces in this country appear to keep their oaths at about the same rate as the politicians. As for the military, if they kept their oaths, all of those who are currently overseas, wouldn't be. Yes, I know they are "just following orders," but that defense went out the window at Nuremberg.

If I offend, I apologize. Then again, the truth hurts.

Metalhead47 said:

SO now you're anti-military too?

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The experience and skill set do not transfer well.

Metalhead47 said:

Which is insulting to our current and former military members who are, in fact, able to tell the difference between being "in country" and being in THE country who's constitution they took an oath to uphold...


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You'd think so. You'd hope so.

And then, there's reality.

You do realize soldiers are nothing 'special,' right? They are just humans, just citizens -- nothing more. As such there are good ones, and bad ones. Like the eleven mentioned in the article below -- recently convicted of War Crimes at JBLM.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2011/11/another_joint_base_lewis-mccho.html

Or the US Army Rangers that robbed a bank.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003562137_newranger09m.html

One shouldn't put people on a pedestal based on their job imho. It makes one lose the ability to be unbiased.

BTW, if the police, soldiers & politicians honored their oaths, we'd have a different country today. There would also be no need for organizations like http://oathkeepers.org/oath/ You can romanticize the oath, as well as the men and woman who take it, but the fact remains that many violate it.

Dave_pro2a said:

The experience and skill set do not transfer well.

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Depends on what you want your police to do.

I'm not going to say another word.

Well, maybe just a few:

If government didn't want that skill set for a particular purpose, they wouldn't be so quick to hire them, would they?

OK. That's it. I'm done. Before a mod comes along with the delete button.

Citizen said:

Depends on what you want your police to do.

I'm not going to say another word.

Well, maybe just a few:

If government didn't want that skill set for a particular purpose, they wouldn't be so quick to hire them, would they?

OK. That's it. I'm done. Before a mod comes along with the delete button.

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Just so you are all aware, the vast majority of LEO are college graduates.

Citizen said:

If government didn't want that skill set for a particular purpose, they wouldn't be so quick to hire them, would they?

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Actually, that's part of the problem.

"Too smart to be a cop"
NY Court of Appeals rules that the government can automatically disqualify applicants based on applicants scoring too high on IQ tests.
http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/...5/Is-it-a-problem-if-a-cop-is-TOO-smart-.html

So excuse me if I worry about the experience, personality traits, and intelligence level that government wants in their LEO officers. I want smart, creative non-linear thinkers, thoughtful and insightful officers. I do not want stupid goons enforcing the law.