opencarrypalmtrees
Regular Member
hello world! welcome to the open carry forum!
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Getting your backsides kicked isn't worth killing someone over.
That's a broad statement that I would have to say would be a case by case basis. How do you know that the person will simply stop with kicking your backside? Once your down, you have no defense, they can continue to beat you until dead.
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After being hit 2 times extremely hard and it hurts, you draw your pistol and fire to stop further attack.
SNIP There are about 10,000 things you can do during a fight.
Not to try to be argumentative here, I understand your frustration with what if's, but I have a problem with your very broad statement.
Are you saying that in NO case is being beat upon a good cause for pulling your gun and shooting back? That this WILL be cause for you going to jail?
http://fox.daytonsnewssource.com/shared/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_47.shtml
This bad guy didn't have a gun, was only punching the LAC, and got shot for it...
you are at the store you are standing in line and a guy starts cussing at you because you are in his way even though you did nothing wrong, he starts punching you and you realize being only 5'8 he just feels too strong and you are worried he might actually beat you up. After being hit 2 times extremely hard and it hurts, you draw your pistol and fire to stop further attack. You manage to disable the person and they are on the floor screaming in pain. You call 911.... what happens next?
Getting punched twice doesn't meet the standard in Virginia!McGhee v. Commonwealth, 219 Va. 560, 562, 248 S.E.2d 808, ___ (1978).
The “bare fear” of serious bodily injury, or even death,
however well-grounded, will not justify the taking of human
life. . . . “There must [also] be some overt act indicative of
imminent danger at the time.” (citations omitted). In other
words, a defendant “must wait till some overt act is done[,] .
. . till the danger becomes imminent.” (citation omitted).
In the context of a self-defense plea, “imminent danger” is
defined as “[a]n immediate, real threat to one's safety . . .
.” (citation omitted). “There must be . . . some act menacing
present peril . . . [and] [t]he act . . . must be of such a
character as to afford a reasonable ground for believing there
is a design . . . to do some serious bodily harm, and imminent
danger of carrying such design into immediate execution.”
here is a special scenario,
you are at the store you are standing in line and a guy starts cussing at you because you are in his way even though you did nothing wrong, he starts punching you and you realize being only 5'8 he just feels too strong and you are worried he might actually beat you up. After being hit 2 times extremely hard and it hurts, you draw your pistol and fire to stop further attack. You manage to disable the person and they are on the floor screaming in pain. You call 911.... what happens next? Are there good examples of this kind of case here in virginia on how the supreme court of virginia ruled on this scenario?
Will this be considered a disparity of force and would be justified?
How much are the attorney fees? Would it be okay to just ask for an attorney for free before you speak with police? ....
I'd just hit him back. Keep in mind you asked what would we do not what we think you should do, so that's my answer. Ask those here who have met me in person, I'm not a small guy, and where I grew up we learned to fight back with our fists. I've been attacked in the street by 3 men at once and I wasn't the one who ended up in hospital.
However, let's consider common sense now. I know I'm armed and have the ability to shoot the guy if I need to. I also know it isn't necessary. I'd just apologize for being in his way and step to the side. If he decided he still needed to escalate to violence there are plenty of things to hand I could use before resorting to a firearm. Have to know to take the higher road, control myself and avoid trouble not go looking for it. Seems sometimes on here there are those who are just looking for any justification to shoot another person. That's a LAST RESORT, not the first thing you should do
If you want to know about the legal aspect of your scenario, ask an attorney
McGhee v. Commonwealth, 219 Va. 560, 562, 248 S.E.2d 808, ___ (1978).
The “bare fear” of serious bodily injury, or even death,
however well-grounded, will not justify the taking of human
life. . . . “There must [also] be some overt act indicative of
imminent danger at the time.” (citations omitted). In other
words, a defendant “must wait till some overt act is done[,] .
. . till the danger becomes imminent.” (citation omitted).
In the context of a self-defense plea, “imminent danger” is
defined as “[a]n immediate, real threat to one's safety . . .
.” (citation omitted). “There must be . . . some act menacing
present peril . . . [and] [t]he act . . . must be of such a
character as to afford a reasonable ground for believing there
is a design . . . to do some serious bodily harm, and imminent
danger of carrying such design into immediate execution.”
I agree getting punched twice prolly isn't gonna cut it.
AOJ/I applies--ability, opportunity, jeopardy/intent.
...While some of us are at the other end of this spectrum. I am permanently disabled and have a truck-load of documentation to prove the fact. If I am required to defend myself, it will be because I am in fear for my life.
Too many variables .... Suppose ...? Or ...? Or has bad knees (me)? Or ...? Or ...?
Too many variables ....
you draw your pistol and fire to stop further attack. (That last one is not a variable. It is the action opencarrypalmtrees took after analyzing the twelve, count them, twelve variables in his scenario.)1) you are at the store 2) you are standing in line and 3) a guy starts cussing at you 4) because you are in his way 5) even though you did nothing wrong, 6) he starts punching you and 7) you realize being only 5'8 8) he just feels too strong and 9) you are worried 10) he might actually beat you up. 11) After being hit 2 times extremely hard and 12) it hurts
Why do I call BS ? Because opencarrypalmtrees says that the scenarios he posts "need an expert opinion" but comes here asking us non-experts for our opinions.(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert for a basic explanation of what an "expert" is, and pay special attention tosidenote: sorry for any negative scenarios while open or conceal carrying, but I post normally the scenarios that can happen and that need an expert opinion. I have spoken to a number of guys at the gun store that say if they were attacked they would just shoot the guy and I have had to say like the black sheep of the group well that technically may not be allowed.
[emphasis added] At best we have knowledge beyond that of the average person, due mostly to experience, but that's where we end (unless and until one of the attorneys shows up and tells us they are gving us their considered professional opinion - and I've yet to see any of them do that!).An expert can be, by virtue of credential, training, education, profession, publication or experience, believed to have special knowledge of a subject beyond that of the average person, sufficient that others may officially (and legally) rely upon the individual's opinion.
Gee Skid....
Why do people call me grouchy?:banana:
Because Snow White says I've got Grumpy sewn up?:monkey
stay safe.