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Thread: Peterson v. Martinez (10th Circuit) Official Appeals Thread

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Peterson v. Martinez (10th Circuit) Official Appeals Thread

    Starting the Official Appeals thread for my case in the 10th Circuit, Peterson v. Martinez. To get everyone up to speed.

    U.S. Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals Status
    • This case was scheduled for oral argument on November 17th, 2011, 8:30AM.
    • The pertinent case filings can be found here
    • The oral argument is can be downloaded here.
    • An unofficial transcript of the proceedings can be downloaded here.
    • The 10th Circuit Panel (Circuit Judges Lucero, Hartz, and Baldock) stated in panel that they would be rehearing the case.
    • The 10th Circuit Panel has rescheduled the case for March 19th, 2012, 2:00PM, for a special session of the court.
    • The 10th Circuit Panel also granted amici curiae 10 minutes for oral argument. At this time, we are trying to determine if they mean all groups who filed an amicus, or if they mean just the NRA-Civil Rights Defense Fund.
    • The panel also stated that they may be asking for supplemental briefing.


    My commentary on the oral arguments will be necessarily limited, because I will make these comments as it was specifically discussed in oral argument and post-argument court orders:

    1) We (myself and my attorney) did plead the Denver carry ban in the complaint in the district court. In similar fashion to Heller and McDonald, the prayer for relief was narrowly asked in order to not have questions of whether or not it is appropriate to license the right. The 10th Circuit may grant different relief than what was asked in the district court in accordance with the federal rules of appellate procedure. It is not in any way the intention to enshrine licensing as a pre-requisite, as prayers for relief and the granting of such relief do not determine the scope of the right.

    2) The fact that amicus parties was asked sua sponte to argue in front of the court separate from the main parties is a testament to the seriousness that this panel is taking the constitutional issues at stake, unlike than mis-conceptualize the issues as the district court did in this case in a similar fashion to Ezell v. City of Chicago (total range ban prohibition, overturned by the 7th Circuit).

    3) Peterson is shaping up to be the first case to be decided on the merits by an federal appellate court on the meaning of "bear" in the 2nd amendment.

    4) Unlike the situation in DC and Chicago passing additional infringing ordinances requiring additional litigation (DC is DC and Illinois has no preemption), Denver is significantly cabin-ed by the state preemption statutes and state court rulings on the subject matter of state preemption and home rule in the state courts.

    -Gray
    Last edited by Gray Peterson; 01-03-2012 at 05:30 AM.

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update! Looks like you had all of 3 minutes to state your case.

    I don't agree with the discussion of the reciprocity statute by the panel. The statute 18-12-213 is crystal clear to me: if state X recognizes ours, we recognize theirs. There is no wiggle room for recalcitrant sheriffs, and the fact that it specifies what decides, rather than who decides,which states are on the list, or does not further elaborate that sheriffs must follow this law like all others is irrelevant. Maybe I just don't possess the necessary legal "logical" ability to see the loopholes and deficiencies discussed by the panel.

    18-12-213 Reciprocity.
    (1) A permit to carry a concealed handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued by a state that recognizes the validity of permits issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 if the permit is issued to a person who is:
    (a) Twenty-one years of age or older; and
    (b) (I) A resident of the state that issued the permit, as demonstrated by the address stated on a valid picture identification that is issued by the state that issued the permit and is carried by the permit holder; or
    (II) A resident of Colorado for no more than ninety days, as determined by the date of issuance on a valid picture identification issued by Colorado and carried by the permit holder.
    (2) For purposes of this section, a "valid picture identification" means a driver's license or a state identification issued in lieu of a driver's license.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Thanks for the update! Looks like you had all of 3 minutes to state your case.
    Yep. Thus the rehearing...

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Alan Gura will be arguing on behalf of SAF/State Orgs, NRA-CRDF Files Motion...

    All,

    Yesterday, Alan Gura, the winning lawyer in both Heller and McDonald, took over from the previous attorney at SAF, and he will be arguing on behalf of the Second Amendment Foundation as well as 17 other state organizations.

    The 10th Circuit also directed that the case be re-argued in front of the panel who originally heard it in November. It will occur on March 19th, 2012, at 2PM. This will be a special panel convening. 10 minutes was given to all amici curiae.

    Today, the National Rifle Association's Civil Rights Defense fund filed, on behalf of all amici (The NRA-CRDF, SAF/State Orgs, and the Brady Campaign) for enlargement of oral argument time to 20 minutes. SAF and the NRA will each have 5 minutes to argue. The Brady folks will get 10 minutes.

    NRAEnlargeArgumentTime.pdf

    This is shaping up to be a very major case. I will be traveling to Denver to attend the arguments this time around.

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
    All,

    Yesterday, Alan Gura, the winning lawyer in both Heller and McDonald, took over from the previous attorney at SAF, and he will be arguing on behalf of the Second Amendment Foundation as well as 17 other state organizations. ...SNIP
    Traveling in style there Gray! Best of luck!

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    Here is hoping we ALL prevail in this restoration of our fundamental right to keep and bear arms....
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    are these hearings open to the public?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    are these hearings open to the public?
    Yes. Decorum rules apply. No camo or anything similar. Do not bring guns to the us courthouse, either.

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    There's a little mention of the case on 9news.com today......

    http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...o-Colo-gun-law

    Hopefully Gray will post here later today or in the morning and let us know how things went.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Eagerly following your case back here in WA Gray! Keep it up!

    nick
    Live Free or Die!

  11. #11
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Still following...

  12. #12
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    Here we are sneaking up on a date nearly a month after the March 19th date reported earlier in this thread, with no update of recent vintage.

    Hence... Whazzup? What happened on 19 March?

    I suspect there must have been some movement on this case since then and am hanging on the edge of my seat to learn new developments.

    And a month on the edge of a seat can put a serious crease in one's backside.

    So help me out here. What came out of the March 19th date, and since that time?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    Well, I'm glad I just tossed $50.00 to the SAF last month!
    Be safe, be prepared, and carry on!

    Alle Ihre Basisstation jetzt zu uns gehören

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    June has arrived, with all the glory of springtime in the Rockys; the snows in the high country melting slowly away as wildflowers appear in great profusion and the rains come across the wide expanse of the eastern plains to the delight of ranchers and farmers dependent on nature's own irrigation to grow their crops. It is a month wherein skiis are put aside in favor of fishing rods and swim suits, horses romp with their new foals in pastures green, and roadside vegetable stands crop up like so many mushrooms across the front range.

    Springtime in the Rockys means warmer weather and less clothing. Less clothing means less concealing of sidearms. It is the perfect time to focus our thoughts on the whole subject of open carry in Colorado, and to assess our good fortune to live in a place such as this, where open carry is recognized as a right of every citizen... except for Denver! And a time, perhaps to renew our focus, on legal issues affecting our ability to open carry or even our essential right, in places such as Denver.

    This thread hasn't been updated much, and at last report, was supposed to see movement in March. A couple of months have passed since then, and the silence is more profound than an evening alone in Cave of the Winds.

    Sure would appreciate any update on the case.
    What's the status of this case?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    I'm guessing the Supremes are taking there own sweet time on deciding this in the hopes that a national reciprocity law comes about and they can just punt.

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    I've been waiting for a decision on this too. A while ago I found this post by Gray himself on the Calguns forum:

    Gray Peterson
    05-05-2012, 1:07 AM
    It's been awfully quiet in here on the progress of any carry cases in CA and around the country. Not really any news of any sort since the Nordyke nondecision. Are our teams regrouping figuring out what to do next? Do we expect anything of benefit to actually come out of Nordyke, other than releasing the chains on the other cases? :gene:

    What are the next steps for Scocca, Richards, Peruta, etc?

    Sure, I'll be glad to:

    Richards & Peruta: On hold for Nordyke

    Peterson (10th Circuit): Awaiting decision, this panel takes about 1-3.5 months to decision.


    Kachalsky (2nd Circuit): All briefings have been completed, oral arguments are being calendared for the week of 8/20

    Pizcatowski (3rd Circuit): Appellant briefing has started. Awaiting the state's response

    Hightower: (1st Circuit): All briefing has been completed. Oral argument is calendared for early June.

    Moore and Shepard (7th Circuit): Preliminary Injunction Appeal, currently on accelerated schedule, briefings will be done in late June.

    Woollard: (District of Maryland & 4th Circuit): Appeal filed by the state on merits. District Court is currently considering stay during appeal, has asked for briefings on a full stay, a temporary stay is in place, court will rule by the end of this month on the stay, if not early next month. If there's no stay in district, the state may ask the 4th Circuit to stay it for abuse of discretion by the district judge (extremely unlikely).

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    M,

    A decision is expected by the end of this month.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
    A decision is expected by the end of this month.
    Fingers very much crossed.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
    M,

    A decision is expected by the end of this month.
    Howdy Gray!
    Thanks so much for your reply.
    I'm keep fingers crossed, along with toes and eyes, hoping for a favorable outcome.
    I surely do appreciate your taking time to respond!

    Especially now that Spring is in full bloom!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
    M,

    A decision is expected by the end of this month.
    Well, that didn't happen.

    I suppose we're back to the 3.5 months estimate for their decision. If anyone has any updates, please share.


    Regardless, I'll keep checking http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/clerk/opinions.php

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky256 View Post
    Well, that didn't happen.

    I suppose we're back to the 3.5 months estimate for their decision. If anyone has any updates, please share.


    Regardless, I'll keep checking http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/clerk/opinions.php
    Yep, I'm surprised. Also, this may allow the 7th circuit to rule first on Moore in Illinois.

  22. #22
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    It's been four months now.

    Maybe I'm impatient but I didn't know or think it could take this long.

    I wish I knew:

    How long it takes on average for this court to decide?

    What's the longest time it took for a decision in recent history?

    If it even has to be decided?


    I hope I'm not beating a dead horse bringing this up again... Name:  DeadHorse.gif
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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    how is this going? how can i help?

  24. #24
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    how is this going? how can i help?
    Same feeling, would love to know if they have set a date or anything yet? any update is nice if there is one! and if there is anything we can do to help in any way please let us know! you know we all have your back! Maybe we can have the Mods Sticky this thread as they did for the first case? as this case is very important to us in my oppinion.
    Semper-Fi
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    Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land!
    Preserve our great republic and each God-given right,
    And pray to God to keep the torch of freedom burning bright!"
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  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    Same feeling, would love to know if they have set a date or anything yet? any update is nice if there is one! and if there is anything we can do to help in any way please let us know! you know we all have your back! Maybe we can have the Mods Sticky this thread as they did for the first case? as this case is very important to us in my oppinion.
    There is no update at this time. I'll be announcing the decision, & I check the CA10 website daily.

    The decision is overdue. The theory is that the 10th circuit is awaiting the decision of 7th circuit with Moore/Shepard.

    Wanna help? Contribute using the link in my signature. Freedom isn't free.
    Last edited by Gray Peterson; 07-30-2012 at 12:07 AM.

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