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Fredericksburg shooting, delayed charges

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
This may be an interesting case to follow.

Two men involved in a shooting (at each other.) One hit in the shoulder, one not at all.

Of note: Uninjured man initially released, but then later updates indicate charges will be sought against both.

Injured man: possession of a firearm after being convicted of a felony, reckless discharge of a weapon, and discharging a firearm in the City limits
Uninjured man: malicious wounding, reckless discharge of a weapon, and discharging a firearm in the City limits

Sounds like they may have initially thought it was a self-defense shooting, but then later decided maybe not so much.

I seem to recall either a case law cite or someone mentioning that a convicted felon may use a gun for self-defense, if the situation warrants. Not sure how that could happen, since it would be a crime for him to have it before the incident... but anyway.

TFred

Article from Police Blog.

Shooting Investigation

UPDATE:

Charges are now being sought against both subjects involved in the shooting on White St last night.

Expected charges against injured male: possession of a firearm after being convicted of a felony, reckless discharge of a weapon, and discharging a firearm in the City limits.

Expected charges against second male: malicious wounding, reckless discharge of a weapon, and discharging a firearm in the City limits.

900 block White St, 1/3 5:17 pm. Police responded to several reports of gunfire in the street. Upon arrival, officers found one 27-year-old Fredericksburg resident inside a house with a shooting injury to his shoulder. The injury was not life-threatening and the subject was transported by ambulance to the hospital. Officers also found one male subject standing in the street with a weapon; he was immediately secured in investigative detention but he has since been released without charges. Two additional males were also detained at the scene due to their possible involvement with the incident, and they have also been released.

Two weapons were recovered at the scene.

The early investigation indicates that both the injured male and the armed subject taken into custody were involved in a verbal altercation concerning a personal dispute. The altercation became physical and both subjects drew weapons and exchanged fire. The injured male then retreated into his home. The investigation has determined that the injured male is a convicted felon and charges are pending against him in connection with his possession and discharge of a firearm.

The investigation is ongoing and additional information relating to the identities and any charges against involved parties will be released as it becomes available.
 

skidmark

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Valhalla
This may be an interesting case to follow.

I seem to recall either a case law cite or someone mentioning that a convicted felon may use a gun for self-defense, if the situation warrants. Not sure how that could happen, since it would be a crime for him to have it before the incident... but anyway.

TFred

It's at www.virginia1774.org - I know you can find it. And as you note, it's going to hinge on when he got possession of the gun.

stay safe.
 

TFred

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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Another update. The spaghetti tangles.

TFred

Snips:

Belgrave and Broadus began arguing in the street and eventually the dispute became physical. Both men pulled out guns and began firing at each other; Broadus was the only one who got hit.

As a convicted felon, Broadus is not allowed to legally possess a firearm. Belgrave has a concealed weapons permit.

Remember, at this point, both men are charged with crimes for their actions.
 
Last edited:

MSC 45ACP

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Newport News, Virginia, USA
Dueling perhaps?

Simultaneous stupidity…..

A creative magistrate might prosecute them for Dueling. The other 2 "gentlemen" that were detained were quite obviously their "Seconds"! Were the pistols recovered a "Matched Pair" of Raven .25 autos by any chance?

From en.wikipedia.org:

Virginia passed the Anti-Dueling Act in 1810, creating civil and criminal penalties for the most usual causes of duelling, rather than for the act itself. It is still on the books. Virginia Code §8.01-45 creates a Civil Action for insulting words. Virginia Code §18.2-416 makes it a crime to use abusive language to another under circumstances reasonably calculated to provoke a breach of the peace. Virginia Code §18.2-417 makes certain slander and libel a crime.[68]

Duelling began to fall out of favor in America in the 18th century, and the death of former United States Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton in a duel against the sitting Vice President Aaron Burr in 1804 did not help its declining popularity. Benjamin Franklin denounced the practice as uselessly violent, and George Washington encouraged his officers to refuse challenges during the American Revolutionary War because he believed that the death by duelling of officers would have threatened the success of the war effort.
In 1820, the American naval hero Stephen Decatur was killed in a duel with fellow naval officer James Barron. Between 1798 and the Civil War, the US Navy lost two-thirds as many officers to dueling as it did in combat at sea. Many of those killed or wounded were midshipmen or junior officers. Despite prominent deaths, such as that of Decatur, duelling persisted because of contemporary ideals of chivalry, particularly in the South, and because of the threat of ridicule if a challenge was rejected.[37][38] Among the lower classes in this period, gouging was a form of fighting that combatants also engaged in to defend their honor.[39]
By the end of the 19th century, legalised duelling was almost extinct in most of the world. Some U.S. states do not have any statute or constitutional provision prohibiting duelling, though the party causing injury in a duel may be prosecuted under the applicable laws relating to bodily harm or manslaughter.

I wonder what the possible punishment is for this statue vs. the modern-day statutes under which they have been charged?
 

peter nap

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Valhalla
A creative magistrate might prosecute them for Dueling. The other 2 "gentlemen" that were detained were quite obviously their "Seconds"! Were the pistols recovered a "Matched Pair" of Raven .25 autos by any chance?

From en.wikipedia.org:

Virginia passed the Anti-Dueling Act in 1810, creating civil and criminal penalties for the most usual causes of duelling, rather than for the act itself. It is still on the books. Virginia Code §8.01-45 creates a Civil Action for insulting words. Virginia Code §18.2-416 makes it a crime to use abusive language to another under circumstances reasonably calculated to provoke a breach of the peace. Virginia Code §18.2-417 makes certain slander and libel a crime.[68]

Duelling began to fall out of favor in America in the 18th century, and the death of former United States Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton in a duel against the sitting Vice President Aaron Burr in 1804 did not help its declining popularity. Benjamin Franklin denounced the practice as uselessly violent, and George Washington encouraged his officers to refuse challenges during the American Revolutionary War because he believed that the death by duelling of officers would have threatened the success of the war effort.
In 1820, the American naval hero Stephen Decatur was killed in a duel with fellow naval officer James Barron. Between 1798 and the Civil War, the US Navy lost two-thirds as many officers to dueling as it did in combat at sea. Many of those killed or wounded were midshipmen or junior officers. Despite prominent deaths, such as that of Decatur, duelling persisted because of contemporary ideals of chivalry, particularly in the South, and because of the threat of ridicule if a challenge was rejected.[37][38] Among the lower classes in this period, gouging was a form of fighting that combatants also engaged in to defend their honor.[39]
By the end of the 19th century, legalised duelling was almost extinct in most of the world. Some U.S. states do not have any statute or constitutional provision prohibiting duelling, though the party causing injury in a duel may be prosecuted under the applicable laws relating to bodily harm or manslaughter.

I wonder what the possible punishment is for this statue vs. the modern-day statutes under which they have been charged?

Great post and you're getting as bad as me!:banana:
 

Neplusultra

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Sep 7, 2007
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Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
Sounds like this was 'mutual affray,' and not a clear 'self-defense' on either side.

I'm not so sure. If you're having a physical altercation and "the other guy" pulls a gun are you to NOT pull yours?? Now if you made it known you had a gun by boasting about it or saying, "I'll shoot your ass", or some such that would be different. IANAL....
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
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Jan 15, 2007
Messages
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Location
Valhalla
I'm not so sure. If you're having a physical altercation and "the other guy" pulls a gun are you to NOT pull yours?? Now if you made it known you had a gun by boasting about it or saying, "I'll shoot your ass", or some such that would be different. IANAL....

Go follow the hints above and read the case law. It is, to say the least, interesting.

stay safe.
 

DocWalker

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Jul 6, 2008
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Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
A creative magistrate might prosecute them for Dueling. The other 2 "gentlemen" that were detained were quite obviously their "Seconds"! Were the pistols recovered a "Matched Pair" of Raven .25 autos by any chance?

From en.wikipedia.org:

Virginia passed the Anti-Dueling Act in 1810, creating civil and criminal penalties for the most usual causes of duelling, rather than for the act itself. It is still on the books. Virginia Code §8.01-45 creates a Civil Action for insulting words. Virginia Code §18.2-416 makes it a crime to use abusive language to another under circumstances reasonably calculated to provoke a breach of the peace. Virginia Code §18.2-417 makes certain slander and libel a crime.[68]

Duelling began to fall out of favor in America in the 18th century, and the death of former United States Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton in a duel against the sitting Vice President Aaron Burr in 1804 did not help its declining popularity. Benjamin Franklin denounced the practice as uselessly violent, and George Washington encouraged his officers to refuse challenges during the American Revolutionary War because he believed that the death by duelling of officers would have threatened the success of the war effort.
In 1820, the American naval hero Stephen Decatur was killed in a duel with fellow naval officer James Barron. Between 1798 and the Civil War, the US Navy lost two-thirds as many officers to dueling as it did in combat at sea. Many of those killed or wounded were midshipmen or junior officers. Despite prominent deaths, such as that of Decatur, duelling persisted because of contemporary ideals of chivalry, particularly in the South, and because of the threat of ridicule if a challenge was rejected.[37][38] Among the lower classes in this period, gouging was a form of fighting that combatants also engaged in to defend their honor.[39]
By the end of the 19th century, legalised duelling was almost extinct in most of the world. Some U.S. states do not have any statute or constitutional provision prohibiting duelling, though the party causing injury in a duel may be prosecuted under the applicable laws relating to bodily harm or manslaughter.

I wonder what the possible punishment is for this statue vs. the modern-day statutes under which they have been charged?

You have way to much time on your hands...or you have been dueling recently.....lol
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Both men have now been arrested. It sounds a lot to me like they decided to arrest and charge them both, and let the courts sort it all out.

Interesting to notice that the one who has the CHP turned himself in, while the convicted felon was arrested at his girlfriend's house.

If nothing else, the CHP guy seems to be trying to appear less like a criminal.

TFred


http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/citypolice/2012/01/05/daily-crime-report-152012/

UPDATE TO SHOOTING/WHITE ST:

January 5th, 2012 10:31 am - Anthony Belgrave, 33, of unknown address was arrested for malicious wounding, reckless discharge of a weapon, and discharging a firearm in the City limits. Belgrave turned himself in at Police Headquarters this morning at 5:00 am and is incarcerated at the Rappahannock Regional Jail.

http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/citypolice/2012/01/05/arrest-updates/

Arrest Updates

January 5th, 2012 4:37 pm - Cortez Broadus, 27, of Fredericksburg was arrested at his girlfriend’s home on White Street this afternoon. Broadus is charged with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, reckless discharge of a weapon, and unlawful discharge of a weapon in the City limits. Broadus was involved in the exchange of gunfire in the 900 block of White Street on January 3 and was injured during the incident.​
 

Badger Johnson

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Jan 12, 2011
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USA
IMO, firearms courses should spend more time talking about when NOT to use your firearm, how to be the 'grey man', how to de-escalate, how to run away, drive away, how to use verbal techniques, how not to go to stupid places, do things stupid, be around stupid people and that there is rarely if ever a firing solution to anything in modern society. (I think even OC-ers can practice 'grey man' techniques and many do).

They should give scenarios and say 'who would draw their firearm here' to the class and show them when and when not to use their HG.

Thanks to TFred for posting these.

$.02
 
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