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Thread: Castle Doctrine

  1. #1
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    Castle Doctrine

    I just saw this news article out of OK and it lists Washington as a state where you have to attempt to retreat before using deadly force. Is this correct? I thought we were a stand your ground state...

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-...ry?id=15285605

    In the map in the video, WA is not highlighted as a stand your ground state. Looks like there was a bill passed in 2005 that nullified the right to use deadly force in your own home unless your life is threatened. Apparently the lawmakers in Olympia do not believe that someone breaking into your house is enough to warrant your life being threatened... Does that mean if someone breaks into my house and they are not muscular and unarmed, do I have to "retreat?"
    Last edited by jchen012; 01-06-2012 at 03:43 AM.

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    To the best of my knowledge no this is incorrect
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Washington State has no “duty to retreat;” precedent was set in State v. Studd (1999) and State v. Reynaldo Redmond (2003) the court found: "that there is no duty to retreat when a person is assaulted in a place where he or she has a right to be."

    RCW 9A.16.050

    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.
    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

    [2011 c 336 § 354; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.16.050.]

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jchen012 View Post
    I just saw this news article out of OK and it lists Washington as a state where you have to attempt to retreat before using deadly force. Is this correct? I thought we were a stand your ground state...

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-...ry?id=15285605

    Where do you see that in the article? Or might it have been chanced since the initial posting?

    Since it was brought up, is there a short list somewhere of self defense laws state by state? My wife was just asking me about this...
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    "that there is no duty to retreat when a person is assaulted in a place where he or she has a right to be."


    In other words there is no statute law memorializing your right to shoot an intruder in your home without first retreating; it's common law: law established by court decision.

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    In other words there is no statute law memorializing your right to shoot an intruder in your home without first retreating; it's common law: law established by court decision.[/COLOR]
    Buzzz!!! I'm sorry, wrong answer...

    RCW 9A.52.020

    Burglary in the first degree.
    (1) A person is guilty of burglary in the first degree if, with intent to commit a crime against a person or property therein, he or she enters or remains unlawfully in a building and if, in entering or while in the building or in immediate flight therefrom, the actor or another participant in the crime (a) is armed with a deadly weapon, or (b) assaults any person.

    (2)
    Burglary in the first degree is a class A felony.
    [1996 c 15 § 1; 1995 c 129 § 9 (Initiative Measure No. 159); 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.52.020.]


    RCW 9A.16.050

    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.
    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

    [2011 c 336 § 354; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.16.050.]
    No questions asked, send them to their maker.

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    Buzzz!!! I'm sorry, wrong answer...


    Workman says otherwise.

    I'm not sure where the discrepancy is - maybe he will explain it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Workman says otherwise.

    I'm not sure where the discrepancy is - maybe he will explain it.
    Actually Workman said...

    Washington’s Supreme Court has already held, in State v. Reynaldo Redmond, that “The law is well settled that there is no duty to retreat when a person is assaulted in a place where he or she has a right to be.” Thus, the Evergreen State is already a “stand-your-ground” jurisdiction, but does not have an actual “stand your ground” statute.
    The bill's changes would simply clarify and strengthen what is already in the RCW.

  9. #9
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post
    No questions asked, send them to their maker.
    Buzzz!!! I'm sorry, wrong answer...

    There is No Duty To Retreat in Washington State so as long as you have a legal right to be there you can defend yourself as long as you meet the criteria for the use of force.

    It is not as simple as they walked through your door and you can shoot them unless the following criteria can be met.

    Washington Practice Series TM
    Database Updated November 2011

    Washington Pattern Jury Instructions--Criminal
    2008 Edition Prepared by the Washington Supreme Court Committee On Jury Instructions, Hon. Sharon S. Armstrong, Co-Chair, Hon. William L. Downing, Co-Chair

    Part IV. Defenses
    WPIC CHAPTER 16. Justifiable Homicide

    WPIC 16.08 No Duty To Retreat

    It is lawful for a person who is in a place where that person has a right to be and who has reasonable grounds for believing that [he][she] is being attacked to stand [his][her] ground and defend against such attack by the use of lawful force. The law does not impose a duty to retreat.

    Washington Pattern Jury Instructions--Criminal
    2008 Edition Prepared by the Washington Supreme Court Committee On Jury Instructions, Hon. Sharon S. Armstrong, Co-Chair, Hon. William L. Downing, Co-Chair

    Part IV. Defenses
    WPIC CHAPTER 16. Justifiable Homicide

    WPIC 16.02 Justifiable Homicide—Defense of Self and Others

    It is a defense to a charge of [murder] [manslaughter] that the homicide was justifiable as defined in this instruction.
    Homicide is justifiable when committed in the lawful defense of [the slayer] [the slayer's [husband] [wife] [registered domestic partner] [parent] [child] [brother] [sister]] [any person in the slayer's presence or company] when:
    1) the slayer reasonably believed that the person slain [or others whom the defendant reasonably believed were acting in concert with the person slain] intended [to commit a felony] [to inflict death or great personal injury];
    2) the slayer reasonably believed that there was imminent danger of such harm being accomplished; and
    3) the slayer employed such force and means as a reasonably prudent person would use under the same or similar conditions as they reasonably appeared to the slayer, taking into consideration all the facts and circumstances as they appeared to [him] [her], at the time of [and prior to] the incident.
    The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the homicide was not justifiable. If you find that the State has not proved the absence of this defense beyond a reasonable doubt, it will be your duty to return a verdict of not guilty.
    This can also be related to Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy.

    We can all draw different scenario's to apply or not apply but one will need to articulate what lead up to the shooting in self defense.

    I do hope SB5418j gets traction and makes it into law, I have contact my State Rep and asked for his support and hope others will do the same.
    Last edited by BigDave; 01-06-2012 at 03:43 AM.
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    Marty Hayes talks about this on his blog:

    http://www.firearmsacademy.com/blog

    This is what he says:

    "in 2005, the Washington State Supreme Court nullified our castle doctrine law in Washington state, taking away our per se right to use deadly force againt persons breaking into our homes, and replaced it with a generalized "necessity based" use of force scheme. In other words, you must make sure the burglar is placing your life in danger before shooting."

  11. #11
    Regular Member ghosthunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post
    Washington State has no “duty to retreat;” precedent was set in State v. Studd (1999) and State v. Reynaldo Redmond (2003) the court found: "that there is no duty to retreat when a person is assaulted in a place where he or she has a right to be."
    They put a map up on the screen the Castle States were colored blue I think. Washington was not.
    Last edited by ghosthunter; 01-05-2012 at 11:31 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Hardbuck90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghosthunter View Post
    They put a map up on the screen the Castle States were colored blue I think. Washington was not.
    Read the comment above yours.

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