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  1. #1
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    background check

    i was reading an article on yahoo and something popped out at me. "Gun sellers in the Bluegrass State, which has just 4.3 million residents, generated almost 2.3 million instant background checks in 2011.... Kentucky's numbers were distorted because the state runs a fresh background check every month on gun owners with state-issued concealed weapons permits". Now the way i interpreted this was that if you have a concealed license, whether or not you buy a gun, the FBI does a background check on you every month. Granted this is talking about Kentucky, but i wondered if it is like that here in Va? hmmm if so, i dont think i like that. if you want a link to the story, here it is.

    http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-data-shows...045125172.html

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Well if Va isn't doing it they will at some point. Then some fool will introduce a bill trying to exempt CHP holders from purchase checks completely, to keep them happy.

    For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind


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    Regular Member thieltech's Avatar
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    wow thats bull sh** ! how do we go from being born with a right to bear arms ... to then being on constant probation month to month monitoring ..... what a joke . hope they dont ever do that in wisconsin
    Last edited by thieltech; 01-05-2012 at 08:57 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieltech View Post
    wow thats bull sh** ! how do we go from being born with a right to bear arms to be on constant probation month to month monitoring ..
    Real easy, ask for the privilege.
    Some even brag on it!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieltech View Post
    wow thats bull sh** ! how do we go from being born with a right to bear arms ... to then being on constant probation month to month monitoring ..... what a joke . hope they dont ever do that in wisconsin
    I'm guessing the lawmakers do not trust the courts to report convictions that would impair the privilege of carrying concealed. Or the lawmakers figured the state police did not have enough to do. Or some hoplophobe convinced the lawmakers that permit holders were such a slippery bunch that there must be literaly scads of them out there who were not qualified, seeing as how some other state whose name is Florida or North Carolina was in the news about having all those folks with permits who did not qualify to have them.

    But rest safely, Virginia. There is at least one Commonwealth's Attorney who takes the effort to write to the Clerk of the Circuit Court that issued a CHP when someone is accused of a crime that might disqualify someone from keeping their CHP if they are convicted. (Fortunately, there is also a Clerk of the Circuit Court who understand what the law requires in order to recommend suspending/revoking a CHP.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm guessing the lawmakers do not trust the courts to report convictions that would impair the privilege of carrying concealed. Or the lawmakers figured the state police did not have enough to do. Or some hoplophobe convinced the lawmakers that permit holders were such a slippery bunch that there must be literaly scads of them out there who were not qualified, seeing as how some other state whose name is Florida or North Carolina was in the news about having all those folks with permits who did not qualify to have them.

    But rest safely, Virginia. There is at least one Commonwealth's Attorney who takes the effort to write to the Clerk of the Circuit Court that issued a CHP when someone is accused of a crime that might disqualify someone from keeping their CHP if they are convicted. (Fortunately, there is also a Clerk of the Circuit Court who understand what the law requires in order to recommend suspending/revoking a CHP.)

    stay safe.
    Why, I think that is in a Ferry Tale somewhere

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Why, I think that is in a Ferry Tale somewhere
    Speaking of which... Has this been completed? Did I miss the unveiling of the finished product?

    Where might I obtain a copy of this objet d'art?

    mike
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Speaking of which... Has this been completed? Did I miss the unveiling of the finished product?

    Where might I obtain a copy of this objet d'art?

    mike
    +1000

  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    +1000
    It has been completed and I reshot a few things, they are finished I've just been waiting until the holidays and Deer season were over.

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    Regular Member sparkman2's Avatar
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    I wonder if a National conceal carry law is passed if this would be a stipulation for states to comply if they want to continue receiving federal funds. Brings to my mind the old "55 MPH" regulations they enacted sometime ago to reduce fuel consumption and save lives.
    Last edited by sparkman2; 01-06-2012 at 04:25 AM. Reason: unintentional misunderstanding
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." Thomas Jefferson (quoting Cesare Beccaria)

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman2 View Post
    I wonder if a National conceal carry law is passed if this would be a stipulation for states to comply if they want to continue receiving federal funds. Brings to my mind the old "55 MPH" regulations they enacted sometime ago to reduce fuel consumption and save lives.

    That's a rhetorical question up there, isn't it?

    I think folks say you should, even if it's not in the rules, use a smiley so all the other folks will know you were not serious.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    I caught a girl shoplifting the other night. She was stealing $600 worth of merchandise (a felony). And she had heroin and needles on her. When I brought her up to my office and asked for ID, she handed me her CHP.
    Last edited by hunter45; 01-06-2012 at 01:48 AM.

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    Lindsay Lohan made it out to Va?

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    Regular Member sparkman2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    That's a rhetorical question up there, isn't it?

    I think folks say you should, even if it's not in the rules, use a smiley so all the other folks will know you were not serious.

    stay safe.
    Missed that sorry.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." Thomas Jefferson (quoting Cesare Beccaria)

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman2 View Post
    Missed that sorry.
    All is forgiven. Please come back. And on your way, would you stop and pick up a few things? I'll PM you a list.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    I caught a girl shoplifting the other night. She was stealing $600 worth of merchandise (a felony). And she had heroin and needles on her. When I brought her up to my office and asked for ID, she handed me her CHP.

    Are you sure it was hers? I mean, everybody1 knows2 that you need a government-issued photo ID along with your CHP.

    stay safe.

    1 - OK, except for maybe 100% of the shoplifters caught redhanded.

    2 - If we went by what people are "supposed" to know in order to not get run over crossing the street there would be fewer traffic accidents at crosswalks, would't there?
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    I caught a girl shoplifting the other night. She was stealing $600 worth of merchandise (a felony). And she had heroin and needles on her. When I brought her up to my office and asked for ID, she handed me her CHP.
    See what happens when you make it too easy to get a CHP? They start shoplifting!

  18. #18
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm guessing the lawmakers do not trust the courts to report convictions that would impair the privilege of carrying concealed. Or the lawmakers figured the state police did not have enough to do. Or some hoplophobe convinced the lawmakers that permit holders were such a slippery bunch that there must be literaly scads of them out there who were not qualified, seeing as how some other state whose name is Florida or North Carolina was in the news about having all those folks with permits who did not qualify to have them.

    But rest safely, Virginia. There is at least one Commonwealth's Attorney who takes the effort to write to the Clerk of the Circuit Court that issued a CHP when someone is accused of a crime that might disqualify someone from keeping their CHP if they are convicted. (Fortunately, there is also a Clerk of the Circuit Court who understand what the law requires in order to recommend suspending/revoking a CHP.)

    stay safe.
    They run Kentucky CDWL monthly so that we may buy a firearm without the wait of calling in for approval. Our CDWL is our approval and they use our license number on the 4473 as the approval number.
    Speed is fine
    Accuracy is final

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    They run Kentucky CDWL monthly so that we may buy a firearm without the wait of calling in for approval. Our CDWL is our approval and they use our license number on the 4473 as the approval number.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    They run Kentucky CDWL monthly ....

    Does it turn to into a pumpkin at midnight on the 30th day?

    Seriously, why do they need to "run" it unless they have an actual, valid need RFN to verify that it remains valid? As I work through this, you folks in KY are getting your names run through the system every 30 days whether or not you are buying a firearm or being charged with a crime or just sitting at home minding your own business. I fail to understand why you put up with the insult of being checked on for no valid reason, let alone paying for how ever many file clerks it takes to run the whole state list, and eating up my federal tax assessment as well to pay the feds' cost of running your names through the system.

    Only thing I can come up with is you are so used to that state abbreveation that no matter how or where it is applied you folks think it is wonderful. (Yes, I almost typed "OK" but realized I have no beef with Oklahoma.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  21. #21
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Skid, I guess they've just gotten used to saying B O H I C A !!!
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Skid, I guess they've just gotten used to saying B O H I C A !!!
    But at least they get KY.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  23. #23
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    It seems intrusive, and a waste of resources, but I'm fine with a monthly BG check IN PRINCIPLE, used as stated.

    There are some states where MANY felons have CHP/CHL because they are so bad about following up and pulling permits, or so I've read recently.

    I'm not sanguine about the Feds doing this under the aegis of a Const. Carry law. The feds seem to "mess up" just about everything they try to do wrt individual rights.

    Posted just to give a different PoV.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    It seems intrusive, and a waste of resources, but I'm fine with a monthly BG check IN PRINCIPLE, used as stated.

    There are some states where MANY felons have CHP/CHL because they are so bad about following up and pulling permits, or so I've read recently.

    I'm not sanguine about the Feds doing this under the aegis of a Const. Carry law. The feds seem to "mess up" just about everything they try to do wrt individual rights.

    Posted just to give a different PoV.
    The speed limit on Main Street is 35MPH. Teenage drivers are speeding on Main Street at an average speed of 45MPH. Therefore, the most logical remedy of the situation is to reduce the speed limit on Main Street to 25MPH.

    Seriously, if the problem is that folks who do not meet the qualifications in fact have CHPs, then weed them out. But why hold every CHP holder under suspicion every 30 days after the first, initial, and only system-wide check for ineligible folks? I guess you don't mind being considered suspect, but I do.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snazuolu View Post
    Now the way i interpreted this was that if you have a concealed license, whether or not you buy a gun, the FBI does a background check on you every month. Granted this is talking about Kentucky, but i wondered if it is like that here in Va?
    More correctly, the Kentucky State Police, which administers Kentucky's licensing law, conducts new NICS checks on all licensees at least once monthly. Since Virginia (not to mention my state) does not, Virginia CHP holders do not get the benefit of the federal NICS check exemption under 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3)(A). In addition, Wisconsin requires states to incorporate by reference all federal disqualifiers in their licensing laws and conduct NICS checks as a condition of recognizing their concealed weapons licenses. If the federal NICS check exemption under 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3)(A) wasn't enough to convince certain states, organizations and individuals to modify their licensing statutes, Wisconsin's recognition/reciprocity standard might.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Does it turn to into a pumpkin at midnight on the 30th day?

    Seriously, why do they need to "run" it unless they have an actual, valid need RFN to verify that it remains valid? As I work through this, you folks in KY are getting your names run through the system every 30 days whether or not you are buying a firearm or being charged with a crime or just sitting at home minding your own business. I fail to understand why you put up with the insult of being checked on for no valid reason, let alone paying for how ever many file clerks it takes to run the whole state list, and eating up my federal tax assessment as well to pay the feds' cost of running your names through the system.
    Since the entire process of rechecking all CCDW licenses is computerized, there is no incremental monetary cost to anyone involved. Unlike the redundant state firearm purchase background check systems in Virginia and a few other states, the federal NICS system does not charge "user fees." Gun dealers in the vast majority of states use NICS at no cost, along with the local or state agencies responsible for processing concealed weapons licenses in those states that include NICS checks as part of their respective background check processes. Since these periodic rechecks on licensed individuals are computerized, there is also no added burden that delays background checks for gun purchases.

    For those of us who have our doubts as to whether all records of approved NICS checks are really and truly destroyed, those states that have qualified themselves for the federal NICS check exemption under 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3)(A) have done their licensees the favor of eliminating NICS checks at the time of individual gun purchases, thereby making it impossible for any nefarious souls in the alphabet soup to acertain the purchases of firearms from FFLs by licensed individuals based on the person's NICS check history. The states that have gone above and beyond the minimal requirements of federal law and regulations by conduting additional NICS checks during the term of a license have done the additional favor of deploying chaffe in the form of (in the case of a 5-year license with monthly NICS checks, literally dozens) additional NICS checks completely unrelated to a firearm acquisition.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm guessing the lawmakers do not trust the courts to report convictions that would impair the privilege of carrying concealed. Or the lawmakers figured the state police did not have enough to do. Or some hoplophobe convinced the lawmakers that permit holders were such a slippery bunch that there must be literaly scads of them out there who were not qualified, seeing as how some other state whose name is Florida or North Carolina was in the news about having all those folks with permits who did not qualify to have them.

    But rest safely, Virginia. There is at least one Commonwealth's Attorney who takes the effort to write to the Clerk of the Circuit Court that issued a CHP when someone is accused of a crime that might disqualify someone from keeping their CHP if they are convicted. (Fortunately, there is also a Clerk of the Circuit Court who understand what the law requires in order to recommend suspending/revoking a CHP.)
    Absent a specific, statutory mandate, see, e.g., 18 Pa. Consol. Stat. 6109(i.1), it is very difficult to ensure complete and accurate reporting of disqualifying convictions occuring within the state of issue. It is next to impossible to ensure complete and accurate interstate reporting. Thus, periodic NICS checks make sense.

    While I believe the New York Times grossly exaggerated the number of North Carolina concealed handgun permit holders whose permits were not suspended or revoked after disqualifying convictions in the name of smearing gun owners generally and doing a hatchet job on H.R. 822 in particular, this story should highlight the need for proactive measures to avoid the huge embarassment that would result from any widespread cases of disqualifications falling through the cracks. The overwhelming statistical evidence showing that individuals who go through the process of obtaining a concealed weapons license are far more law-abiding than the general public and rarely commit crimes involving the criminal use of a firearm has greatly aided efforts over the last quarter-century to expand shall-issue laws, expand reciprocity under state laws, reduce location-specific carry bans, and now open the door for recognizing the right to carry without a license in a small but growing number of states. Those states that conduct ongoing background checks on licensed individuals are taking good, proactive measures to minimize their risk of inadvertently giving the antis any factual material--no matter how small--to use against our efforts.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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