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Thread: Why doesn't WI honor our permits, when we honor theirs?

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    Why doesn't WI honor our permits, when we honor theirs?

    Recently while looking at what states honored MO conceal carry permits on handgunlaw.us I was startled to see that while MO has seen fit to honor WI permits, WI has failed to do the same for MO permits. Does anyone know why this is? I thought that reciprocity meant that BOTH states had agreed to honor each others permits. Why is our state allowing residents of another state a privilege that their own residents are denied in WI?

    Here are the links to the two states.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/missouri.pdf


    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf
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    honestly the ONLY thing I can think of is POLITICS! lol sorry but Politics is a dirty word no matter how you put it.
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    It is most likely that there is not reciprocity between the states, but only that Mo. has decided to honor Wi. permits. My state of Nv. does not have "reciprocity" with Mo. but each honors the others permits.

    This is because Nv. requires other states to have permit standards at least as strict as ours to be considered for recognition. If they pass, they are recognized rather they recognize Nv. permits or not.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Missouri is one of the states that honors CC permits from all other states. I noted that MO was not on the initial reciprocity list published for WI but have not taken the time to investigate the WI requirements that may have led to the omission. I will note that the MO AG staff that appears to be responsible for pursuing and establishing reciprocity is not nearly as aggressive about it or as positive towards CC residents as the prior administration's staff. I don't know that that has any bearing on it, however, I do know that the assistant AG I used to email about these matters was most excellent about these matters and very responsive about explaining political and legal conditions about reciprocity. The current person who responds has been pretty narrow in perspective, rigid in thought and vague in details. I doubt we will see WI reciprocity until there are some changes there.

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    Does MO do a NICS background check on issuing a permit? That is all WI is looking for.

    If MO does do NICS, then it's possible MO hasn't returned the requested info to WI.
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Yes, NICS, state poice, and local sheriff's office criminal checks and they run your fingerprints through for federal, state or local wants/warrants/etc.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Yes, NICS, state poice, and local sheriff's office criminal checks and they run your fingerprints through for federal, state or local wants/warrants/etc.
    NO, Mo. does not require an NCIS check, WI does, that's the problem.
    I'm in the process of getting an AZ OOS permit, that will allow me to carry in WI.
    I have relatives in WI and I've never been there "no gun, no $".
    This summer after I have the AZ permit, it's off to WI I'll go.
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    MO does a FBI background check on new permit applicants.

    Below is copied from RSMO571.101 Sec 5.

    5. Before an application for a certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement is approved, the sheriff shall make only such inquiries as he or she deems necessary into the accuracy of the statements made in the application. The sheriff may require that the applicant display a Missouri driver's license or nondriver's license or military identification and orders showing the person being stationed in Missouri. In order to determine the applicant's suitability for a certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement, the applicant shall be fingerprinted. The sheriff shall request a criminal background check through the appropriate law enforcement agency within three working days after submission of the properly completed application for a certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement. If no disqualifying record is identified by the fingerprint check at the state level, the fingerprints shall be forwarded to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a national criminal history record check. Upon receipt of the completed background check, the sheriff shall issue a certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement within three working days. The sheriff shall issue the certificate within forty-five calendar days if the criminal background check has not been received, provided that the sheriff shall revoke any such certificate and endorsement within twenty-four hours of receipt of any background check that results in a disqualifying record, and shall notify the department of revenue.

    Does MO CCW law mention reciprocity anywhere? I was under the impression that the law only states that MO honors all states and political subdivisions thereof permits.
    Last edited by 9026543; 01-07-2012 at 10:50 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    MO does a FBI background check on new permit applicants.

    Below is copied from RSMO571.101 SNIP
    Thank you for the correction/clarification. That's what I get for working from memory rathing than citing to authority (on my tablet and while it is great to not have to drag around the laptop, some things simple on a full computer are not on this.

    If what is posted above re:WI is accurate, it sounds like MO more than meets the background check requirements.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Thank you for the correction/clarification. That's what I get for working from memory rathing than citing to authority (on my tablet and while it is great to not have to drag around the laptop, some things simple on a full computer are not on this.

    If what is posted above re:WI is accurate, it sounds like MO more than meets the background check requirements.
    The WI AG doesn't agree, that's what counts. It would save me $60.00
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well, we'll see in time. We've seen reciprocity take a while with other states as well. CC is new in WI and and I expect they are going to be pretty rigid about interpretations and other matters for a while. Luckily have no immediate plans for a trip to WI unlike you so I have the luxury of patience on this.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    The NICS check is more thorough than the FBI check that MO does. This is the difference in why they won't reciprocate with MO. Everything else is fairly equal. The NICS check takes in the FBI check and other info into the authorization to receive a CCW for WI.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    The NICS check is more thorough than the FBI check that MO does. This is the difference in why they won't reciprocate with MO. Everything else is fairly equal. The NICS check takes in the FBI check and other info into the authorization to receive a CCW for WI.
    Really? Maybe I am just totally misunderstanding something here. Are you saying that the NICS check that we all go through to purchase a gun from an FFL is more thorough than the background check required to get a MO CCW? You got a cite/reference for that?

    I find it hard to believe that the NICS search with a name/SSN/address is more thorough than the name/address/ssn/fingerprint background check through the local sheriff's office/MO state police/FBI background search required in MO. Also, since NICS was already up and running for over a decade when MO's CCW law was passed, that also means that the MO legislature held to a lower standard of background check than is required just to buy a gun from an FFL AND that said lesser background search is given 45 days to complete instead of the couple of minutes required for a NICS check. That just doesn't make sense to me, but I have been distracted from 2A issues for a while due to business/personal matteres requiring all my time and attention so I'm open to being educated on this and brought up to date on changes.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Really? Maybe I am just totally misunderstanding something here. Are you saying that the NICS check that we all go through to purchase a gun from an FFL is more thorough than the background check required to get a MO CCW? You got a cite/reference for that?

    I find it hard to believe that the NICS search with a name/SSN/address is more thorough than the name/address/ssn/fingerprint background check through the local sheriff's office/MO state police/FBI background search required in MO. Also, since NICS was already up and running for over a decade when MO's CCW law was passed, that also means that the MO legislature held to a lower standard of background check than is required just to buy a gun from an FFL AND that said lesser background search is given 45 days to complete instead of the couple of minutes required for a NICS check. That just doesn't make sense to me, but I have been distracted from 2A issues for a while due to business/personal matteres requiring all my time and attention so I'm open to being educated on this and brought up to date on changes.
    Hopes this helps:

    The NICS is a national system that checks available records in the National Crime Information Center (NCIC), the Interstate Identification Index (III), and the NICS Index to determine if prospective transferees are disqualified from receiving firearms.

    Prohibiting
    Categories Defined by Statute

    The NICS Index contains information provided by local, state, tribal, and federal agencies of persons prohibited from receiving firearms under federal law. The NICS Index contains prohibiting information not found in the NCIC or the III.


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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    So do you know what is involved in the MO State Police and FBI checks required in MO for a CCW? Wouldn't the FBI check the NICS as part of their background check with our fingerprints??

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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    So do you know what is involved in the MO State Police and FBI checks required in MO for a CCW? Wouldn't the FBI check the NICS as part of their background check with our fingerprints??
    From my understanding... they basically check for;
    warrants
    domestic judgements
    judegements of mentally incomptent
    fellonies

    I think that the biggest part. Then at times you wonder do they really check?

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    So do you know what is involved in the MO State Police and FBI checks required in MO for a CCW? Wouldn't the FBI check the NICS as part of their background check with our fingerprints??
    Here is what an FBI Fingerprint check is:

    [snip] An FBI Identification Record—often referred to as a criminal history record or a “rap sheet”—is a listing of certain information taken from fingerprint submissions retained by the FBI in connection with arrests and, in some instances, federal employment, naturalization, or military service. The process of responding to an Identification Record request is generally known as a criminal background check.

    If the fingerprints are related to an arrest, the Identification Record includes name of the agency that submitted the fingerprints to the FBI, the date of the arrest, the arrest charge, and the disposition of the arrest, if known to the FBI. All arrest data included in an Identification Record is obtained from fingerprint submissions, disposition reports, and other information submitted by agencies having criminal justice responsibilities.
    The FBI check is basically a history based upon fingerprints taken in a criminal issue. An NICS check is this and non-fingerprint activity, i.e. warrants, domestic dispute charges, etc.

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