Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: MKE area malls - no CCW ...

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    42

    MKE area malls - no CCW ...

    pardon me if this was brought up in a detailed thread and i didnt see it

    so ive been carrying in mayfair nearly every day since i got my license .. (im recovering from surgery and i need to walk, and i live near bye)

    i always always go in through macys ... no signs... no signs from macys into the mall ...

    however, my wife said she saw "no weapons allowed" signs sorta hidden over on the sides of doors when she went today

    i called. .. no CCW allowed per mall info workers ..

    but without signs at every door, how can this be? if im walking in through macys, and there are absolutely no signs except store hours ... then in the opening from macys to the mall there are no signs, how can there be no CCW allowed?

    anyone interested in trying to get together and get something started to get CCW allowed to help us protect our families .. especially with the "mob" incident last year i feel much better carrying there .. and its 5 minutes from my house, and the only place in MKE i can find some of the stores i like

    same deal with brookfield square .. i go through JCpennys, no signs .. no signs going into the mall .. i called security to check and they state "we allow no firearms in the parking lots, stores, on any of our property, even if there are no signs" ..

    ideas? thoughts? damned if i want to go shopping without carrying and i cant avoid the malls ..

    thanks!


    Richard (Todd)


    ETA - did WI put into law anything regarding required size and content of signage? I cant remember but i thought i had read something regarding that (i believe this is also common in a couple other states)
    Last edited by touchdowntodd; 01-06-2012 at 07:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Don't ask, don't tell, else they'll get legal and you'll be scrood.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    42
    understood .. i just cant understand how not all entrances can be posted and its a valid posting ..

    either way .. i need to look into some sort of a gathering and mass email or something .. we have no where to shop in MKE where we can carry mall wise .. its unbelievable .. if nothing else you would think one mall would welcome it in order to gain all of the business

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    , Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,140
    Quote Originally Posted by touchdowntodd View Post
    understood .. i just cant understand how not all entrances can be posted and its a valid posting ..

    either way .. i need to look into some sort of a gathering and mass email or something .. we have no where to shop in MKE where we can carry mall wise .. its unbelievable .. if nothing else you would think one mall would welcome it in order to gain all of the business
    Welcome to the land of Barrett, Flynn and Jeri.
    Last edited by Flipper; 01-06-2012 at 10:06 PM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Fitchburg, WI
    Posts
    53
    If I go in a door, and it is not posted, then I can legally carry in that establishment until told otherwise. If I enter the mall through that store, and there is no posting at the mall entrance, I can legally carry until told otherwise. Since nobody knows I'm carrying, nobody tells me to leave... I'm not going to search every entrance to see if one of them are posted, and I'm not going to inform the mall that they have to post every entrance. If they want to post, they need to know how to do it, I'm not going to help them.
    Μολὼν λάβε
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’— Thomas Jefferson

    Member of NRA, GOA, WCI

  6. #6
    Regular Member markush's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Kenosha
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by baldp8 View Post
    If I go in a door, and it is not posted, then I can legally carry in that establishment until told otherwise. If I enter the mall through that store, and there is no posting at the mall entrance, I can legally carry until told otherwise. Since nobody knows I'm carrying, nobody tells me to leave... I'm not going to search every entrance to see if one of them are posted, and I'm not going to inform the mall that they have to post every entrance. If they want to post, they need to know how to do it, I'm not going to help them.
    OP I'd suggest you read, re-read, then re-read again what baldp8 is saying. Forget about your gathering or mass email campaign...if you do something like that before you know it there might very well be unmistakable signage at ALL entrances.

    The signs are supposed to be at least 5"x7" and no specific wording is required per ACT35.

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Don't ask, don't bring it to their attention, & if you OC be ready to leave when they tell you to.
    Or they might just call the police & lie, saying that one of their guards had told you to leave & you didn't.
    That's happened to at least one member here. (At Mayfair.)
    So it'd be good to have your recorder going all the time you're there.

    BTW - They can't prohibit in the parking lots.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    42
    thanks for the info ...

    i cant get over not being able to carry there .. when the wife and I talked about this originally months ago she was most excited about me carrying there due to some issues she has had in the past with the younger kids, and especially after the mob ******** ... its right near our house and we do like to walk the mall and people watch .. depressing that i cant protect her there .

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    42
    regarding signage, is there anything besides the size that must be followed?

    i drove over last night, and the only signs are hidden on the far sides of windows in 4 door entrances ... so not even on the doors .. its incredibly easy to NOT see them .. and i did find several entrances with absolutely nothing

    my only fear is anything with police because of carrying ... last thing i need is that mall cop attitude combined with some cop thats pissed he got called to the mall anyways

  10. #10
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    There are a number of issues that need clarification here; a property owner's rights, the issue of trespass and notice, the signage requirements of Act 35, and most importantly the Second Amen. as a civil right.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,029
    SECTION 82. 943.13 (2) (bm) of the statutes is created
    to read:
    943.13 (2) (bm) 1. In this paragraph, “sign” means a
    sign that states a restriction imposed under subd. 2. that
    is at least 5 inches by 7 inches.


    2. a. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 1m., an owner
    of a residence that is not a single−family residence has
    notified an individual not to enter or remain in a part of
    that building, or on the grounds of that building, while
    carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if
    the owner has posted a sign that is located in a prominent
    place near all of the entrances to the part of the building
    to which the restriction applies or near all probable access
    points to the grounds to which the restriction applies and
    any individual entering the building or the grounds can be
    reasonably expected to see the sign.


    am. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., 4., and 5.,
    an owner or occupant of a part of a nonresidential building,
    the state or a local governmental unit, or a university
    or a college has notified an individual not to enter or
    remain in a part of the building while carrying a firearm
    or with a particular type of firearm if the owner, occupant,
    state, local governmental unit, university, or college has
    posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all
    of the entrances to the part of the building to which the
    restriction applies and any individual entering the building
    can be reasonably expected to see the sign.


    b. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., an owner or
    occupant of the grounds of a nonresidential building or of
    land has notified an individual not to enter or remain on
    the grounds or land while carrying a firearm or with a particular
    type of firearm if the owner or occupant has posted
    a sign that is located in a prominent place near all probable
    access points to the grounds or land to which the
    restriction applies and any individual entering the
    grounds or land can be reasonably expected to see the
    sign.
    .

    For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 3., the organizers
    of the special event have notified an individual not to
    enter or remain at the special event while carrying a firearm
    or with a particular type of firearm if the organizers
    have posted a sign that is located in a prominent place
    near all of the entrances to the special event and any individual
    attending the special event can be reasonably
    expected to see the sign.


    SECTION 83. 943.13 (3) of the statutes is amended to
    read:
    943.13 (3) Whoever erects on the land of another
    signs which are the same as or similar to those described
    in sub. (2) (am) without obtaining the express consent of
    the lawful occupant
    of or holder of legal title to such land
    is subject to a Class C forfeiture.

    ----------------------------------------
    Emphasis = mine.
    In regards to a mall it is unclear whether or not "owner" would apply to those businesses leasing space. In most other types of leases. The lease holder is considered somewhat of a "quasi" owner. Reference this excerpt from the paragraph related to private residences. I realize the paragraph does not specifically apply to a Mall but cite it as indication of owner lack of authority in regards to leased occupancy.

    941.13 (1m) (c) 1. While carrying a firearm, enters
    or remains at a residence that the actor does not own or
    occupy after the owner of the residence, if he or she has
    not leased it to another person
    , or the occupant of the residence
    has notified the actor not to enter or remain at the
    residence while carrying a firearm or with that type of
    firearm.

    I also ponder the reach of the following paragraph.

    SECTION 79. 943.13 (1m) (b) of the statutes is
    amended to read:
    943.13 (1m) (b) Enters or remains on any land of
    another after having been notified by the owner or occupant
    not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph
    does not apply to a licensee or out−of−state
    licensee if the owner’s or occupant’s intent is to prevent
    the licensee or out−of−state licensee from carrying a firearm
    on the owner’s or occupant’s land.


    Here again we get involved in the nebulous definition of premisis.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •