Don't ask, don't tell, else they'll get legal and you'll be scrood.
Thread: MKE area malls - no CCW ...
pardon me if this was brought up in a detailed thread and i didnt see it
so ive been carrying in mayfair nearly every day since i got my license .. (im recovering from surgery and i need to walk, and i live near bye)
i always always go in through macys ... no signs... no signs from macys into the mall ...
however, my wife said she saw "no weapons allowed" signs sorta hidden over on the sides of doors when she went today
i called. .. no CCW allowed per mall info workers ..
but without signs at every door, how can this be? if im walking in through macys, and there are absolutely no signs except store hours ... then in the opening from macys to the mall there are no signs, how can there be no CCW allowed?
anyone interested in trying to get together and get something started to get CCW allowed to help us protect our families .. especially with the "mob" incident last year i feel much better carrying there .. and its 5 minutes from my house, and the only place in MKE i can find some of the stores i like
same deal with brookfield square .. i go through JCpennys, no signs .. no signs going into the mall .. i called security to check and they state "we allow no firearms in the parking lots, stores, on any of our property, even if there are no signs" ..
ideas? thoughts? damned if i want to go shopping without carrying and i cant avoid the malls ..
ETA - did WI put into law anything regarding required size and content of signage? I cant remember but i thought i had read something regarding that (i believe this is also common in a couple other states)
Last edited by touchdowntodd; 01-06-2012 at 06:42 PM.
Don't ask, don't tell, else they'll get legal and you'll be scrood.
understood .. i just cant understand how not all entrances can be posted and its a valid posting ..
either way .. i need to look into some sort of a gathering and mass email or something .. we have no where to shop in MKE where we can carry mall wise .. its unbelievable .. if nothing else you would think one mall would welcome it in order to gain all of the business
Last edited by Flipper; 01-06-2012 at 09:06 PM.
When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
Why do police carry guns?
The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
"Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.
If I go in a door, and it is not posted, then I can legally carry in that establishment until told otherwise. If I enter the mall through that store, and there is no posting at the mall entrance, I can legally carry until told otherwise. Since nobody knows I'm carrying, nobody tells me to leave... I'm not going to search every entrance to see if one of them are posted, and I'm not going to inform the mall that they have to post every entrance. If they want to post, they need to know how to do it, I'm not going to help them.
‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’— Thomas Jefferson
Member of NRA, GOA, WCI
The signs are supposed to be at least 5"x7" and no specific wording is required per ACT35.
Don't ask, don't bring it to their attention, & if you OC be ready to leave when they tell you to.
Or they might just call the police & lie, saying that one of their guards had told you to leave & you didn't.
That's happened to at least one member here. (At Mayfair.)
So it'd be good to have your recorder going all the time you're there.
BTW - They can't prohibit in the parking lots.
Originally Posted by MLK, JrOriginally Posted by MSG LaigaieOriginally Posted by Proverbs 27:12Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
thanks for the info ...
i cant get over not being able to carry there .. when the wife and I talked about this originally months ago she was most excited about me carrying there due to some issues she has had in the past with the younger kids, and especially after the mob ******** ... its right near our house and we do like to walk the mall and people watch .. depressing that i cant protect her there .
regarding signage, is there anything besides the size that must be followed?
i drove over last night, and the only signs are hidden on the far sides of windows in 4 door entrances ... so not even on the doors .. its incredibly easy to NOT see them .. and i did find several entrances with absolutely nothing
my only fear is anything with police because of carrying ... last thing i need is that mall cop attitude combined with some cop thats pissed he got called to the mall anyways
There are a number of issues that need clarification here; a property owner's rights, the issue of trespass and notice, the signage requirements of Act 35, and most importantly the Second Amen. as a civil right.
SECTION 82. 943.13 (2) (bm) of the statutes is created
943.13 (2) (bm) 1. In this paragraph, “sign” means a
sign that states a restriction imposed under subd. 2. that
is at least 5 inches by 7 inches.
2. a. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 1m., an owner
of a residence that is not a single−family residence has
notified an individual not to enter or remain in a part of
that building, or on the grounds of that building, while
carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if
the owner has posted a sign that is located in a prominent
place near all of the entrances to the part of the building
to which the restriction applies or near all probable access
points to the grounds to which the restriction applies and
any individual entering the building or the grounds can be
reasonably expected to see the sign.
am. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., 4., and 5.,
an owner or occupant of a part of a nonresidential building,
the state or a local governmental unit, or a university
or a college has notified an individual not to enter or
remain in a part of the building while carrying a firearm
or with a particular type of firearm if the owner, occupant,
state, local governmental unit, university, or college has
posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all
of the entrances to the part of the building to which the
restriction applies and any individual entering the building
can be reasonably expected to see the sign.
b. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., an owner or
occupant of the grounds of a nonresidential building or of
land has notified an individual not to enter or remain on
the grounds or land while carrying a firearm or with a particular
type of firearm if the owner or occupant has posted
a sign that is located in a prominent place near all probable
access points to the grounds or land to which the
restriction applies and any individual entering the
grounds or land can be reasonably expected to see the
For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 3., the organizers
of the special event have notified an individual not to
enter or remain at the special event while carrying a firearm
or with a particular type of firearm if the organizers
have posted a sign that is located in a prominent place
near all of the entrances to the special event and any individual
attending the special event can be reasonably
expected to see the sign.
SECTION 83. 943.13 (3) of the statutes is amended to
943.13 (3) Whoever erects on the land of another
signs which are the same as or similar to those described
in sub. (2) (am) without obtaining the express consent of
the lawful occupant of or holder of legal title to such land
is subject to a Class C forfeiture.
Emphasis = mine.
In regards to a mall it is unclear whether or not "owner" would apply to those businesses leasing space. In most other types of leases. The lease holder is considered somewhat of a "quasi" owner. Reference this excerpt from the paragraph related to private residences. I realize the paragraph does not specifically apply to a Mall but cite it as indication of owner lack of authority in regards to leased occupancy.
941.13 (1m) (c) 1. While carrying a firearm, enters
or remains at a residence that the actor does not own or
occupy after the owner of the residence, if he or she has
not leased it to another person, or the occupant of the residence
has notified the actor not to enter or remain at the
residence while carrying a firearm or with that type of
I also ponder the reach of the following paragraph.
SECTION 79. 943.13 (1m) (b) of the statutes is
amended to read:
943.13 (1m) (b) Enters or remains on any land of
another after having been notified by the owner or occupant
not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph
does not apply to a licensee or out−of−state
licensee if the owner’s or occupant’s intent is to prevent
the licensee or out−of−state licensee from carrying a firearm
on the owner’s or occupant’s land.
Here again we get involved in the nebulous definition of premisis.