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Thread: Bar patron kills armed robber, Chesapeake VA

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Bar patron kills armed robber, Chesapeake VA

    "He was just telling me empty my pockets," Perry added." I told him not to shoot me, because I got a newborn son and then he got shot right in front of me, dead."

    Witnesses say a patron shot and killed one of the suspect. Bullets were flying and a familiar face was also hit.
    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...Chesapeake-bar
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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    That story was one of the most poorly written articles I've ever seen!

    SFA!!!
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

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    SERPA retention or concealed...

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Someone needs to remind them... there are NO BARS in Virginia!

    I guess the robbers forgot that they repealed the no concealed carry law in Virginia a couple summers ago. A potential Luby's massacre... averted!

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This article indicates that several of the customers were actively resisting the three robbers. Good for them!

    TFred

    http://www.wvec.com/home/Would-be-ro...136853148.html

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    TFred, Sleep Much?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    TFred, Sleep Much?
    Et tu?

    TFred... heading to beddy bye land right now...

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Et tu?

    TFred... heading to beddy bye land right now...
    Hmmmm. I was getting up about then.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Witnesses tell 13 News that at least one person was shot at Roger's Sports Bar as armed men tried to hold it up. The person is believed to be one of the suspects.
    "Guy in the mask with the light blue Taurus? He might have been a suspect"

    Witnesses tell 13 News that one person who was shot, a patron at the bar, threw pool sticks at the suspects, trying to distract them.
    Dayum, homie was it a patron or a suspect? Tough crowd, throwing pool cues, good for them.

    Police are looking for two armed men they believe are driving a light blue Taurus.
    I read this as 'carrying a Taurus', lol.

    PS (Sleep is over rated. I never sleep. At night. Sometimes. (now, the month of January, for example). Posted at 5:42am)
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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Too bad that they couldn't have dropped all three of them.

    Message to Bad Guys: "We have guns, too. And, we are everywhere."

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    Regular Member GreatDaneMan's Avatar
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    Right in my area.. My friends band play here alot. I am there on occasion. I worked a few blocks away untill Wednesday.


    One of the regulars was shot in the stomach, a guy messed up his foot diving over the bar toward attackers. I believe the guy shot in stomach was the one that ended one of the robbers. Crazy ****. My friends mother works there, but I cant find his phone number..
    Last edited by GreatDaneMan; 01-07-2012 at 11:46 AM.

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    Just for clarification, the individual that was shot was hit in the stomach and walked out of the bar on his own power. He was in surgery and has since been sent to recovery. Gall bladder was removed but last i heard he is doing well. He is the one that was throwing the pool cues. Another patron is the one who ended the one dirt bags life. The second injury as stated above was a foot injury while jumping the bar to engage the suspects. Obviously the patrons fought back (GREAT JOB ALL BTW), and personally knowing a few of the fellows that frequent this typically quiet establishment, they are not going to let anyone take advantage of them like these cowardly thugs tried. There have been statements that the thugs that ran have since been apprehended, but nothing has been confirmed. Looks as if it was a grand total of 4 thugs, including a driver. Good shooting sir, and i applaud everyone involved in possibly saving a lot of lives.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Since their cohort was killed as a direct result of this crime, can the surviving robbers be charged with murder?

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Since their cohort was killed as a direct result of this crime, can the surviving robbers be charged with murder?

    TFred
    That's way out of my field TFred, but I think with the change in the Triggerman law, they can.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Since their cohort was killed as a direct result of this crime, can the surviving robbers be charged with murder?

    TFred
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's way out of my field TFred, but I think with the change in the Triggerman law, they can.
    Mine too, hence the question. I do seem to remember reading that if innocents are killed during the commission of a robbery, even if not at the direct hand of the robber, there can be murder charges. One example that comes to mind would be if a robber is fleeing and causes an accident in which another driver is killed. I don't really see very much different here, the bar patrons were defending their own lives, I don't see any reason the surviving perpetrators should not be held responsible for that death as well. I guess we need User to opine.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Mine too, hence the question. I do seem to remember reading that if innocents are killed during the commission of a robbery, even if not at the direct hand of the robber, there can be murder charges. One example that comes to mind would be if a robber is fleeing and causes an accident in which another driver is killed. I don't really see very much different here, the bar patrons were defending their own lives, I don't see any reason the surviving perpetrators should not be held responsible for that death as well. I guess we need User to opine.

    TFred
    I would agree if other innocents are killed, including if the innocent was accidentally killed by a defender. I have always had a bit of a problem attaching the guilt of murder to one of the perpetrators when one of the other perpetraters is killed. At best it would see to me to be a form of assiting another's suicide or some such since the dead perpetrator willingly and knowingly put himself into that situation. Having said that it suddenly strikes me that this situation strongly resembles the situation of two dueling parties getting into a gun fight that is not a self-defense by one party. It would be murder for either side to kill the other side. Kind of like a scheduled gang fight might be. But since in our situation one side is innocent all guilt transfers to the other. But these two scenarios are not exact matches though.

    I'm not sure if the idea of murder charges is so universally accepted that it never makes it to a higher court, I can't imagine it wouldn't sooner or later. If it hasn't already. It does seem a bit controversial to me.
    Last edited by Neplusultra; 01-07-2012 at 09:48 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Not intended as a cite - just my recollection.

    When in the commission of a crime, someone innocent of participation is killed. The perpetrator(s) of the crime can be held accountable for that death even w/o being the one(s) that directly caused it.

    Hopefully we shall hear from User who will point out the correct set of circumstances applicable here.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Well... I spent the evening with my sis and b-i-l, and the subject of Castle Doctrine came up. They told me about this news story from Oklahoma that I somehow had missed... I don't know about Virginia, but apparently in Oklahoma the answer is YES, because they are going to charge the surviving perpetrator with first degree murder, after the teen mom shot the home invader dead!

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/06...oting-killing/

    Wow.

    TFred

    That's when McKinley saw Martin with something shiny in his hand, which she took for a pistol, but later was determined to be the knife. She fired when she saw him shove the couch out of the way.

    "Our initial review of the case doesn't indicate she violated the law in any way," Assistant District Attorney James Walters told The Oklahoman newspaper.

    However, prosecutors have charged Martin's alleged accomplice, 29-year-old Dustin Louis Stewart, with first-degree murder. According to authorities, Stewart was with Martin but ran away from McKinley's home after hearing the gunshots.

    "When you're engaged in a crime such as first-degree burglary and a death results from the events of that crime, you're subject to prosecution for it," Walters said.
    Last edited by TFred; 01-07-2012 at 10:34 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Well... I spent the evening with my sis and b-i-l, and the subject of Castle Doctrine came up. They told me about this news story from Oklahoma that I somehow had missed... I don't know about Virginia, but apparently in Oklahoma the answer is YES, because they are going to charge the surviving perpetrator with first degree murder, after the teen mom shot the home invader dead!

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/06...oting-killing/

    Wow.
    Another video with coverage of the Oklahoma shooting... note the "Castle Doctrine" map shown briefly at the end of the story... they show Virginia with no Castle Doctrine.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/greghen...ws_in_oklahoma

    TFred

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatDaneMan View Post
    Right in my area.. My friends band play here alot.
    Mine's playing there St. Paddy's Day.

    Good on the armed patron and those who resisted.
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Since their cohort was killed as a direct result of this crime, can the surviving robbers be charged with murder?
    Can and will. Capital murder. The only thing which may separate them from the death penalty is that only one of their cohorts died. They'll be charged with murder one and plea murder two or manslaughter. They'll put the two thugs in separate rooms and give the better deal to whichever one spills first.

    I first heard about this from ANOTHER band friend from RICHMOND, of all places. Crazy stuff.
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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation And Then They Roll Out the Obligatory Weepy Grandma

    "He was a gud keed jus tryin' a turn he life around and now he dead"

    Sorry, he was a ghetto thug who committed a felony and lost his life trying to take something what wasn't his.

    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...suspect-speaks

    Fortunately it seems like most of Hampton Roads has no sympathy for this woman or her loss - because a man must stand responsible for his actions... and through those actions he has left TWO CHILDREN without a father. Though it sounds like they may have experienced that fate either way.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Since their cohort was killed as a direct result of this crime, can the surviving robbers be charged with murder?

    TFred
    Not provided as a cite to authority, just what one college professor (Prof. Don Grubbs - Criminal procedures 101) told us in class.

    If Myself, Tom & Steve go to knock over a 7-11, and in the process of steeling cash the clerk pulls out a revolver and kills Tom and Steve, then I **could be** charged with the homicide of Tom and Steve, not the 7-11 clerk as my actions led to the deaths of tom and Steve.

    he said some officers and lawyers will unofficially refer to it as "4th Degree Murder."

    Again: Not purporting this as accurate, just what I recall ol' Grubbs telling us. Check with User for the official poop.
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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    It really is terribly written but I'm glad the patrons fought back.
    Witnesses say a patron shot and killed one of the suspect. Bullets were flying and a familiar face was also hit.

    "They shot Sonny," one witness screamed. "Sonny got shot."
    Who's Sonny?

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal View Post
    It really is terribly written but I'm glad the patrons fought back.


    Who's Sonny?
    If I were so inclined as to rob someplace, it wouldn't be a Bar.
    If it were a little further East, the bar patrons might have Bar-B-Q ed them by the time the cops got there.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Police won't say if the person who shot Davis could possibly face charges.
    I'll go out on a limb and say this: If the patron who shot the robber faces charges, you better believe that some sort of Castle Doctrine will pass this year. I know the two are not completely related, but if the patron is charged, the outrage will be swift and furious.

    Unless they can prove to the masses that he acted inappropriately...

    TFred

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    It's not mentioned, and now, hopefully is OBE, but the issue of alcohol in bloodstream. There is not numerical value associated with the carry of a handgun other than being under the influence. In my mind that leaves it up to the discretion of the officer arresting, or investigating. That is a law that needs fixing. Good or bad, if you shoot someone while/after consuming adult beverages, there should be a value to be over/under. We, at least most of us agree, that it is in bad form to drink while open carrying at dinner/a grill, in public in general. However, I think there needs to be a basic point of reference so LEOs don't arrest you for being under the influence after the first sip, of the first beer, because they saw you do it...
    The Second Amendment is in place
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