CCW Class Taken Today

amsdorf · Jan 7, 2012

Thought I'd better join this forum, since I completed my CCW today here in the St. Louis, Missouri Area.

I completed it at Sovereign Arms, located off of Highway 141 at 21 in Arnold, Missouri.

Great class, great information, very well done.

Now to get my paperwork turned in at the St. Louis County Police Department in Clayton and wait for my license permit to go through.

Firedawg314 · Jan 7, 2012

Congrads... I did that too back in October last year. WHen I filed it there, it taken me about 2 weeks to get the letter back in the mail. If I remember correctly... it cost $75. Then to have an ID with the CCW on it was $5 at the DMV. Really, it doesn't make that much of a difference either on the driver's or STate ID...when the cop runs your info... it will come up that you have a CCW.

But congrads again... ask questions, learn as much as you can and good luck.

HighFlyingA380 · Jan 7, 2012

Firedawg314 said:
Really, it doesn't make that much of a difference either on the driver's or STate ID...when the cop runs your info... it will come up that you have a CCW.

While it's true the cop will know either way, I still would get a different card. Do you really want the cashier to know every time you buy some booze, or any other time you show your I.D.? For me, that's too many random people who would know I'm carrying.

Verd · Jan 8, 2012

HighFlyingA380 said:
While it's true the cop will know either way, I still would get a different card. Do you really want the cashier to know every time you buy some booze, or any other time you show your I.D.? For me, that's too many random people who would know I'm carrying.

Very good point.

Firedawg314 · Jan 8, 2012

HighFlyingA380 said:
While it's true the cop will know either way, I still would get a different card. Do you really want the cashier to know every time you buy some booze, or any other time you show your I.D.? For me, that's too many random people who would know I'm carrying.

That's a good point. But at the same time... most of us OC...or at least want to OC. Now, what if the laws change for our entire state... that OC is allowed with proper CCW lisence?

In general, people are going to know you are carrying. Either by conversation, seen a lump in your pocket or the way your shirt folds, etc. In general, most of us do not carry the little LCP .380 etc. I carry a Springfield XD compact. Most people won't know about it unless I have to draw it. But, when I can, I do OC. and for most places, if you OC, you have to show your permit when requested. What's funny from your comment... I'm 35, I haven't shown my lisence in about 10 years for liquor...LOL. I guess it all depends on the area you are at. To be honest... I don't think most people can properly read an ID. Most of them are looking at your pic and your date of birth. Any other numbers espeically at the top... they are not paying any attention to it. Maybe the ones who have a CCW. And the questions begs....ok the store owner knows you carry...the cashiers knows it too... if you are CCing, most people don't care and seeing you have a permit for it... you probably encourage them to get one too.

BUt I can see, how the information can be used against you, if they are planning to rob you later on. All I can really say... I hope and pray you never have to use it on someone. But if a day like that does happen to you, hopefully two or three more CC people are there to help you out. I know its good to surpise the robber with a round or two in their chest. But lets not forget, most thugs will have a gun, or a gun and 2 or 3 more people with them and they are already prepared to take you out. My other suggestion is... hopefully you carry on your hip and you worked on your quick draw.

9026543 · Jan 8, 2012

Then there is the cost of renewal at the DOR License office. MO Class F license cost $20.00 good for 6 years. Non Drivers ID card with CCW endorsement cost $5.50 good for 3 years. So if you have your endorsement on your DL cost will be $20.00 every 3 years vs $5.50 every 3 years on Non driver ID with CCW endorsement.

LMTD · Jan 8, 2012

In the state of MO your DL may be seized "In Lew of bond" meaning they keep the card instead of you having to go before the magistrate and posting bond for a speeding ticket etc. I do not know what all muni's do but the city of STL will do this no matter what.

While not a big end of the earth deal, if you have it on your DL and you got a speeding ticket, you would not have your card with you as you are supposed to, again not something that is huge, but some morons could make it into far more than it ever was at all.

Another idea someone pointed out, job hunting and documentation requirements. Might not be a bad idea NOT to have it on the DL when supplying it for the I9 form or whatever number it is to prove you are a citizen. Never know when an anti-gunner might see it and change their mind about your employ-ability!

Mine is on the state ID and the other additional states I carry.

Redbaron007 · Jan 8, 2012

Firedawg314 said:
That's a good point. But at the same time... most of us OC...or at least want to OC. Now, what if the laws change for our entire state... that OC is allowed with proper CCW lisence?

In general, people are going to know you are carrying. Either by conversation, seen a lump in your pocket or the way your shirt folds, etc. In general, most of us do not carry the little LCP .380 etc. I carry a Springfield XD compact. Most people won't know about it unless I have to draw it. But, when I can, I do OC. and for most places, if you OC, you have to show your permit when requested. What's funny from your comment... I'm 35, I haven't shown my lisence in about 10 years for liquor...LOL. I guess it all depends on the area you are at. To be honest... I don't think most people can properly read an ID. Most of them are looking at your pic and your date of birth. Any other numbers espeically at the top... they are not paying any attention to it. Maybe the ones who have a CCW. And the questions begs....ok the store owner knows you carry...the cashiers knows it too... if you are CCing, most people don't care and seeing you have a permit for it... you probably encourage them to get one too.

BUt I can see, how the information can be used against you, if they are planning to rob you later on. All I can really say... I hope and pray you never have to use it on someone. But if a day like that does happen to you, hopefully two or three more CC people are there to help you out. I know its good to surpise the robber with a round or two in their chest. But lets not forget, most thugs will have a gun, or a gun and 2 or 3 more people with them and they are already prepared to take you out. My other suggestion is... hopefully you carry on your hip and you worked on your quick draw.

IMHO, friends may know about your CCW; however, those are people I've chosen to tell. If I want someone to know I CCW, I will inform them; I don't want to make it public information. Hence I have a separate ID card. There are still some transactions that require a copy of your drivers license, again, I want to choose who I inform of my carry.

As LMTD stated, some jurisdictions will hold your license in lieu of bond; in the letter of the law, you are suppose to have your endorsement with you when CCW. (see here)

As for OC, one doesn't have to have a CCW, with exception of some cities.

IMHO, carrying it separate is wise. Plus, the cost, aprox $20 vs $5 every three years. It is a choice.

Firedawg314 · Jan 8, 2012

Redbaron007 said:
IMHO, friends may know about your CCW; however, those are people I've chosen to tell. If I want someone to know I CCW, I will inform them; I don't want to make it public information. Hence I have a separate ID card. There are still some transactions that require a copy of your drivers license, again, I want to choose who I inform of my carry.

As LMTD stated, some jurisdictions will hold your license in lieu of bond; in the letter of the law, you are suppose to have your endorsement with you when CCW. (see here)

As for OC, one doesn't have to have a CCW, with exception of some cities.

IMHO, carrying it separate is wise. Plus, the cost, aprox $20 vs $5 every three years. It is a choice.

Please forgive me... I wasn't really disagreeing with him, just pointing out a few things. As I too have it on a State ID and not my driver's license. From what the personnel told me at DMV... its true if you have an even year birthday, your liscense is good for 6 years and odd is for 4 years. The CCW is 3 years. For example... lets say you got your CCW today, but your driver's liscense expire next year. When you renew your license, you only pay for the driver's part. Another example, your CCW expires this year, but your driver's lisence ends in 4 years. You just pay for the "endorcment" which is the price of a State ID. Now... that's what they told me... I never tried it out yet.

But that is an excellent point the other guy mention, that you apply for a job and an anti-gun person is reviewing your info. I would hate for anyone to loose a job oppertunity because they have a CCW.

In all... its good that everyone have a choice. Also, there's nothing saying you cannot have a "CCW" on a state ID and your driver's lisence if you choose too.

Oh yes, here in Florissant, if you OC (is legal with a CCW), some cops and store owners will ask. Some just ask to see how you react.

Good convo.

Redbaron007 · Jan 8, 2012

Firedawg314 said:
Please forgive me... I wasn't really disagreeing with him, just pointing out a few things. As I too have it on a State ID and not my driver's license. From what the personnel told me at DMV... its true if you have an even year birthday, your liscense is good for 6 years and odd is for 4 years. The CCW is 3 years. For example... lets say you got your CCW today, but your driver's liscense expire next year. When you renew your license, you only pay for the driver's part. Another example, your CCW expires this year, but your driver's lisence ends in 4 years. You just pay for the "endorcment" which is the price of a State ID. Now... that's what they told me... I never tried it out yet.

But that is an excellent point the other guy mention, that you apply for a job and an anti-gun person is reviewing your info. I would hate for anyone to loose a job oppertunity because they have a CCW.

In all... its good that everyone have a choice. Also, there's nothing saying you cannot have a "CCW" on a state ID and your driver's lisence if you choose too.

Oh yes, here in Florissant, if you OC (is legal with a CCW), some cops and store owners will ask. Some just ask to see how you react.

Good convo.

No sweat. I saw your point; it is ones choice. I was just putting my $.02 in the hat. I have a couple of buds who believe in putting their endorsement on their DL.

deepdiver · Jan 9, 2012

I have a AAA membership and bond card so I would just use that if pulled over instead of a DL for bond and I own my own business so that isn't a problem, and except for LEO checkpoints, about the only time I have to show a DL is for banking/financial matters. HOWEVER, I do go to/through IL with some frequency (unfortunately) and ILSP have been known to be rather, um, overly thorough (to be kind) in traffic stops involving someone with a CC license/permit from another state.

So yes, I got my ccw endorsement on a state ID because I am afraid of IL cops. The have been known to turn a minor traffic infraction into a public spectical "we want to search your car for a firearm" with 2 back up units on the side of the road arguing that your having a MO CCW is RAS to drag out all your luggage onto the side of the road. I don't know how prevalent it really is and I've only talked to one person who swears that a 10 over speeding ticket ended up being a complete car search for a firearm after the ILSP officer saw his CCW (and no, he did not attempt any legal action over it), but stories about it down here abound.

I don't know how much is truth and how much hyperbole but I'm not taking any chances in IL by notifying any IL cop that I have a MO CCW.

deepdiver · Jan 9, 2012

amsdorf said:
Thought I'd better join this forum, since I completed my CCW today here in the St. Louis, Missouri Area.

I completed it at Sovereign Arms, located off of Highway 141 at 21 in Arnold, Missouri.

Great class, great information, very well done.

Now to get my paperwork turned in at the St. Louis County Police Department in Clayton and wait for my license permit to go through.

DOH, completely forgot... Congratulations!!!

Redbaron007 · Jan 9, 2012

deepdiver said:
I have a AAA membership and bond card so I would just use that if pulled over instead of a DL for bond and I own my own business so that isn't a problem, and except for LEO checkpoints, about the only time I have to show a DL is for banking/financial matters. HOWEVER, I do go to/through IL with some frequency (unfortunately) and ILSP have been known to be rather, um, overly thorough (to be kind) in traffic stops involving someone with a CC license/permit from another state.

So yes, I got my ccw endorsement on a state ID because I am afraid of IL cops. The have been known to turn a minor traffic infraction into a public spectical "we want to search your car for a firearm" with 2 back up units on the side of the road arguing that your having a MO CCW is RAS to drag out all your luggage onto the side of the road. I don't know how prevalent it really is and I've only talked to one person who swears that a 10 over speeding ticket ended up being a complete car search for a firearm after the ILSP officer saw his CCW (and no, he did not attempt any legal action over it), but stories about it down here abound.

I don't know how much is truth and how much hyperbole but I'm not taking any chances in IL by notifying any IL cop that I have a MO CCW.

Curious, have you been successful at using that bond card? In years past, I've heard some local LEAs won't accept them unless they take you in to verify it? It has been several years, mainly in Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and Tennessee where it wasn't accepted.

Firedawg314 · Jan 10, 2012

deepdiver said:
I have a AAA membership and bond card so I would just use that if pulled over instead of a DL for bond and I own my own business so that isn't a problem, and except for LEO checkpoints, about the only time I have to show a DL is for banking/financial matters. HOWEVER, I do go to/through IL with some frequency (unfortunately) and ILSP have been known to be rather, um, overly thorough (to be kind) in traffic stops involving someone with a CC license/permit from another state.

So yes, I got my ccw endorsement on a state ID because I am afraid of IL cops. The have been known to turn a minor traffic infraction into a public spectical "we want to search your car for a firearm" with 2 back up units on the side of the road arguing that your having a MO CCW is RAS to drag out all your luggage onto the side of the road. I don't know how prevalent it really is and I've only talked to one person who swears that a 10 over speeding ticket ended up being a complete car search for a firearm after the ILSP officer saw his CCW (and no, he did not attempt any legal action over it), but stories about it down here abound.

I don't know how much is truth and how much hyperbole but I'm not taking any chances in IL by notifying any IL cop that I have a MO CCW.

GOD.... yes IL is a trip! Back in 07 I was coming back from Maryland, while travling on I-64... I drove about 20 miles STRIGHT stuck behind traffic, barly going 50 MPH! There where two semis, and several cars in front of them on both sides of the lanes. Next thing I knew... I got pulled over???? The "state trooper" stated I was doing 75 MPH in my Mustang... YEAH RIGHT. I tried to explain I had it on curse control because we wasn't going that fast. But I quickly realized, I wasn't going to win. Keep in mind I had my militray lisence plate, two military stickers on my back windown to include a IAFF sticker and wearing a IAFF sweat shirt. Keep in mind also, I know these don't give any benifits... but it kinda shows what type of person I am. So...at that momeny I notice several cops pulling people over on both sides of the road and down the road....OH, its IL end of the month, lets raise money for tickets fund! During that time, its where if you go 1 MPH over the speed limit, you will receive a ticket. For me... I honest think its for the fact I had a muscle car. Because, for the next hour of driving... The only cars I seen pulled over where muscle cars! SO be careful... after a hoilday, or near the end of month on a weekend, IL will perform their little "campain" to give out tickets.

So if you can avoid IL, please do so.

deepdiver · Jan 10, 2012

Redbaron007 said:
Curious, have you been successful at using that bond card? In years past, I've heard some local LEAs won't accept them unless they take you in to verify it? It has been several years, mainly in Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and Tennessee where it wasn't accepted.

Well, I haven't had a moving violation since 1995 so, um, no not recently. In '95 I did use the bond card successfully in TX County, MO. Before that it was '91 in IL and AAA didn't have bond cards back then (or at least I didn't get any with my membership) but you could use your AAA itself IIRC which I think I did. Actually, the bond cards may have started when I first went to the gold membership. I just don't remember.

deepdiver · Jan 10, 2012

Firedawg314 said:
GOD.... yes IL is a trip! snip
OH, its IL end of the month, lets raise money for tickets fund! During that time, its where if you go 1 MPH over the speed limit, you will receive a ticket. For me... I honest think its for the fact I had a muscle car. Because, for the next hour of driving... The only cars I seen pulled over where muscle cars! SO be careful... after a hoilday, or near the end of month on a weekend, IL will perform their little "campain" to give out tickets.

So if you can avoid IL, please do so.

I always thought the end of the month thing was BS until shortly before I moved out of IL in '95 I was coming home from work late one night probably around 2am (I managed group homes for mentally ill/handicapped) on a nearly abandoned stretch of interstate with cruise set right at the speed limit as I just exhausted and not taking any chances. I got pulled over by county cop. Long story short, after telling me I was doing 2 mph over and running my license, cop apologized for pulling me over while laughing and saying something like, "Sorry, end of the month and your about the only one out here." He was very nice and all, but I thought the situation was horse squeeze.

P.S. They were pulling over Mustangs because they couldn't catch the Trans Ams.

CCW Class Taken Today

amsdorf

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Firedawg314

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HighFlyingA380

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Verd

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Firedawg314

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9026543

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LMTD

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Redbaron007

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Firedawg314

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Redbaron007

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deepdiver

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deepdiver

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Redbaron007

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Firedawg314

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deepdiver

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deepdiver

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