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Thread: Why isn't a Florida or Missouri permit legal in Maine

  1. #1
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    Why isn't a Florida or Missouri permit legal in Maine

    I was shocked to see that a Florida or Missouri permit isn't legal in Maine. I enjoy vacationing in Maine and will have to reconsider it as a photo vacation location.

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    Don't quote me on it, but I believe it has to do with Maine's "Good Moral Character" clause. Many Shall Issue states do not mention an equivalent to "Good Moral Character" and Maine requires the reciprocal state to be the same or stricter than it's own laws regarding permits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Don't quote me on it, but I believe it has to do with Maine's "Good Moral Character" clause. Many Shall Issue states do not mention an equivalent to "Good Moral Character" and Maine requires the reciprocal state to be the same or stricter than it's own laws regarding permits.
    That's probably correct. Florida and Missouri permits aren't honored in Maine for probably the same reason that Tennessee's permit is honored in EVERY state that honors any out-of-state permits...except Maine. This is despite the fact that our requirements are, in general, much stricter, even though we honor all out-of-state permits. In Tennessee, the permit applicant must be 21 or older, be a resident of Tennessee, take an 8 hour class that requires passing both a written and live-fire range test, and undergo a fingerprint-based background check. Maine grants permits to persons age 18-20 and doesn't require residency (I'm not sure about their requirements regarding the class and/or fingerprinting, if any). Heck, even Nevada, Minnesota, and more recently, Washington State recognize our permits; and those are probably also in the top 5 hardest states in which to earn reciprocity.

    Unfortunately, despite how strict we are, our permit doesn't ask for or check the applicants "good moral character." Our disqualifiers for permit denial more or less match the Federal prohibitions against firearm ownership, plus a couple of extra ones (for example, an applicant can't have a DUI record within the last five years). Our disqualifiers are pretty black and white: either the applicant is eligible or not eligible. There is no "well, there's nothing to prohibit you from owning a firearm; but I'm not sure about your moral character; permit denied." Perhaps the "moral character" clause is something the Maine legislature should consider removing, especially since it gives the licensing authority the ability to capriciously deny permits based on subjective criteria.
    Last edited by Nascar24Glock; 01-08-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Maine's AG sucks. Michigan had residents working with both states to try to get our agreement through. Maine is just weird about reciprocity. It is possible to get a non-resident permit from Maine. $60
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Don't quote me on it, but I believe it has to do with Maine's "Good Moral Character" clause. Many Shall Issue states do not mention an equivalent to "Good Moral Character" and Maine requires the reciprocal state to be the same or stricter than it's own laws regarding permits.
    Maine is shall issue. The "moral character" doesn't have anything to do with it.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Maine is shall issue. The "moral character" doesn't have anything to do with it.
    Maine definitely requires that you demonstrate "good moral character"

    Read the Statute.

    1.Criteria for issuing permit. The issuing authority shall, upon written application, issue a permit to carry concealed handguns to an applicant over whom it has issuing authority and who has demonstrated good moral character and who meets the following requirements:

    Last edited by boyscout399; 01-08-2012 at 10:50 PM.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Maine definitely requires that you demonstrate "good moral character"

    Read the Statute.

    1.Criteria for issuing permit. The issuing authority shall, upon written application, issue a permit to carry concealed handguns to an applicant over whom it has issuing authority and who has demonstrated good moral character and who meets the following requirements:

    Well apparently I was able to show good moral character from about 900 miles away when I put in for my Maine CCF. And I do not believe Michigan has that requirement in our statue and we are recognized. I really think it's a matter of whoever is responsible for making the agreements not putting in much effort.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Maine is shall issue. The "moral character" doesn't have anything to do with it.
    I've had people be denied because the issuing authority deemed they didn't show "good moral character"...

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanebelanger View Post
    I've had people be denied because the issuing authority deemed they didn't show "good moral character"...
    That is odd. But I do not think the "good moral character" thing is preventing the reciprocity.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    That is odd. But I do not think the "good moral character" thing is preventing the reciprocity.
    Last year there was a bill introduced to remove the "Good Moral Character" clause because it was too ambiguous. The reason they wanted to remove it was because it was preventing reciprocity agreements with several states. Maine law requires all reciprocal states to have the same or stricter requirements for their permits. That particular bill failed in committee. The chief of the Maine State Police argued that removing the clause would make people with "bad moral character" able to get permits. The committee bought the argument and tabled the bill.

  11. #11
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Last year there was a bill introduced to remove the "Good Moral Character" clause because it was too ambiguous. The reason they wanted to remove it was because it was preventing reciprocity agreements with several states. Maine law requires all reciprocal states to have the same or stricter requirements for their permits. That particular bill failed in committee. The chief of the Maine State Police argued that removing the clause would make people with "bad moral character" able to get permits. The committee bought the argument and tabled the bill.
    That is just so weird to me in a shall issue state. In MI you have to list 2 references "(h) The names, residential addresses, and telephone numbers of 2 individuals who are references for the applicant." but idk if they actually contact those references. When I applied for my ME non-resident I don't remember having to do anything to show good moral character. I don't think I had to put down references or show moral character to get my ND non-resident either which is the same process for residents and non-residents.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    That is just so weird to me in a shall issue state. In MI you have to list 2 references "(h) The names, residential addresses, and telephone numbers of 2 individuals who are references for the applicant." but idk if they actually contact those references. When I applied for my ME non-resident I don't remember having to do anything to show good moral character. I don't think I had to put down references or show moral character to get my ND non-resident either which is the same process for residents and non-residents.
    For "good moral character" they sometimes will look at things like your traffic records or Disorderly Conduct convictions or whatnot to see if you're a generally law abiding person. They can also use it as an instrument locally (not so much for out of state permits) if an issuing police chief knows that the applicant is the town drunk or a wifebeater they can deny based on the "good moral character" clause. It's rarely used, but it's available.

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    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Maine's AG sucks. Michigan had residents working with both states to try to get our agreement through. Maine is just weird about reciprocity. It is possible to get a non-resident permit from Maine. $60
    whats even goofier is that Maine ALSO just got reciprocity with PA and they have the 2 references BS/Good Moral Character and requires NO training... So that could be it...
    Last edited by RabbiVJ; 01-09-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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