"DEA" raids wrong Marysville home

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-mar...ded-to-be-dea-agents-20120108,0,1047792.story

Armed thugs posing as DEA agents storm Marysville apt, scare the crap out of occupants:

Armed men pretending to be DEA agents busted into a Marysville apartment late Saturday night, seeking drugs and money, and leaving the people inside no chance to defend themselves.​

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TV news article was longer, "real" police speculate they broke into the wrong house.

And of course it begs the question, bunch thugs try breaking into YOUR house screaming "DEA!" when you know you have nothing illegal... what do you do?

With stuff like this happening by the bad guys, how can people support SWAT actions of this nature by the cops? It seems any sane person would shoot back given the chance.

Oh, I'm sure some SWAT, DEA, and no-knock raid cops are not concerned about the position their raids put citizens in. No warrant needs to be shown, sometimes no knock needed. Just kick in the door and start screaming at everyone to get on the floor, shoot any barking dogs, shoot any homeowners who, say don't know its the cops, and square off with say a golf club across the room (the cops claimed they thought the golf club was a sword.)

Gee, what say we return to the days of actually showing a warrant? Or, knocking and waiting til somebody actually answers. Or, conducting the search during daylight. At that point, anybody kicking in a door ain't cops, its posers. Repel boarders.

Anybody really think police are gonna give up their court-sanctioned "powers" now that citizens are becoming less sure whether its cops or posers?

Holy crap that is right down the street from me. Glad I'm armed. Although in that situation being out numbered like that it probably wouldn't help.

I recall on one of my first experiences OCing, I was at petsmart and the cashier asked why I had a gun. I told her my reasons. She said yeah but in Marysville? Nothing ever happens here. It's so quite. Yeah that's what they always say on the news in the interviews after something happens. No place is safe.

Citizen said:

Anybody really think police are gonna give up their court-sanctioned "powers" now that citizens are becoming less sure whether its cops or posers?

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Even more of a reason why they need more firepower, in case someone shoots back 'mistakenly'...


If just one officer' life is saved by kicking in a door without knocking, even if it means taking the life of an aggressive homeowner, it's worth it.

TechnoWeenie said:

Even more of a reason why they need more firepower, in case someone shoots back 'mistakenly'...


If just one officer' life is saved by kicking in a door without knocking, even if it means taking the life of an aggressive homeowner, it's worth it.

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Besides, the [STRIKE]victim of the raid[/STRIKE] suspect might flush a tiny bit of drugs down the toilet and suddenly all the evidence is gone. No, no. Can't have that. Risking peoples lives and killing their pets is justified.

Do you guys actually read what you type? Some of this stuff borders on the rediculous. You guys act like they do hard knocks on every entry. Those are very special circumstances. Yes, mistakes happen. You guys are using the same arguments that anti nuts use on you. Just different people. It is really disheartening to see this stuff coming from the same people every day. You just turned something about criminals into the cops are the bad guys.

decklin said:

Do you guys actually read what you type? Some of this stuff borders on the rediculous. You guys act like they do hard knocks on every entry. Those are very special circumstances. Yes, mistakes happen. You guys are using the same arguments that anti nuts use on you. Just different people. It is really disheartening to see this stuff coming from the same people every day. You just turned something about criminals into the cops are the bad guys.

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You know, your sincerity would count more if instead of assuming we are the bad guys, you thought for one brief moment, "gee, I wonder what they're fussing about. Maybe they know something I don't."

Come on. Give us some credit. I don't know about the others you're referring to, but I've got five years and 11K posts on this board. Do you really think I just woke up one morning and decided to start criticizing cops? Or, upon reflection, does it seem more likely that in all that time I might have come across some really interesting info about policing, given how big the internet is and how much access there is to information?

Here is a bit of information that speaks to this thread: in the war on drugs approximately 40 innocent people have been killed in SWAT raids. You can read more about it at the link below. But, realize that is just one source. Some of us have been paying attention to this subject for years.

White Paper: Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476

The free versions are near the bottom of the page.


ETA: Thanks for the comment about reading what we wrote. I went back and read it. The actual text technically bordered on cop-bashing, so I edited it into line with forum rules.

decklin said:

Do you guys actually read what you type? Some of this stuff borders on the rediculous. You guys act like they do hard knocks on every entry. Those are very special circumstances. Yes, mistakes happen. You guys are using the same arguments that anti nuts use on you. Just different people. It is really disheartening to see this stuff coming from the same people every day. You just turned something about criminals into the cops are the bad guys.

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http://reason.com/blog/2011/10/13/wrong-door-raid-and-flash-bang
71 yo old suffers heart attack due to SWAT home invasion no-knock warrant served on the wrong address.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/cri...s_about_mistaken_drug_raid_on_his_family.html
Hey sorry about the flash bang and the AR-15 in your face.... wrong apartment building. It's just a home invasion warrant mistake, our bad.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...tion-raid-default-student-loans_n_873272.html
6AM SWAT raid done for the Department of Education over..... student loans.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-20/...ficers-informant-kathryn-johnston?_s=PM:CRIME
http://lastfreevoice.wordpress.com/...-no-knock-warrant-death-of-92-year-old-woman/
3 officers in LA convicted of in the Death of a 92 year old Grandma, after falsifying evidence to obtain a home invasion warrant. She was murdered for trying to defend herself.

http://news.yahoo.com/swat-teams-shooting-marine-causes-outrage-184928360.html
US Marine killed by police during home invasion raid. He was murdered for trying to defend his family.

http://reason.com/blog/2008/05/07/tracy-ingle-another-drug-war-o
War on Drugs issued home invasion warrant, innocent suspect shot 5 times by police and then he is charged with assault. He just tried to defend himself.

http://www.westword.com/2000-02-24/news/unlawful-entry/
Innocent man murdered by LEO serving a War on Drugs home invasion warrant. Turns out the confidential informant lied about buying drugs there.

http://www.hr95.org/Memorial.html#scott,d
Millionaire Donald Scott murdered by agents in the WoD serving a home invasion warrant. He was accused of farming MJ on private land coveted by the feds -- the raid turns up no drugs. He was just trying to defend his family.

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/2...home-and-shot-and-kill-man-holding-golf-club/
Innocent man murdered by police for defending himself during an home invasion warrant -- because he shared an apartment.

http://reason.com/blog/2010/05/17/detroit-girl-7-killed-in-swat
7 yo girl murdered by SWAT because she lived in an adjacent apartment to a murder suspect. Sorry grandma and little girl 'the home invasion warrant was for the whole building,' so we just did your apartment too. BONUS!

I could go on, and on , and on, and on, and on, and on. You should read http://www.swatreform.org/cases.shtml and check the map at http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Bad guys pose as LEO serving no-knock warrants all the time

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Home-invaders_pose_as_NYC_police
http://johnsoncitypress.com/News/article.php?id=89604
http://statesville.wbtv.com/news/cr...ers-arrested-concord-home-invasion-police-say
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8105587
Examples are countless. Google it. This is common knowledge that should affect how a home owner views a group of 'dark shapes,' crashing through his door in the middle of the night.


These cops (if they were serving a home invasion style warrant) would look exactly like criminals impersonating cops, while doing a real home invasion.

LEO are getting away with murder and it's intentional. They place law abiding citizens into a position where they SHOULD reasonably defend themselves with a firearm -- and then murder them for taking a totally reasonable action. Of course it's deemed 'justified.'

Everyone thinks "it'll never happen to me... I'm a law abiding citizen, I don't deal drugs, etc." Well, there's always the chance. What will you do if 4 people burst into your home at 4AM yelling "Police, get on the ground?" while waving guns around. YOU KNOW you're not a criminal, YOU KNOW bad guys use this tactic, YOU KNOW police sometimes make mistakes... so what do you do? Do you hesitate and risk getting murdered? Or do you act swiftly and risk getting murdered? What a catch-22.

That_is_a_PROBLEM. If you don't see that Decklin, then no one can help you.

decklin said:

Do you guys actually read what you type? Some of this stuff borders on the ridiculous. You guys act like they do hard knocks on every entry. Those are very special circumstances. Yes, mistakes happen. You guys are using the same arguments that anti nuts use on you. Just different people. It is really disheartening to see this stuff coming from the same people every day. You just turned something about criminals into the cops are the bad guys.

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When cops act just like criminals, how do you tell the difference? And there are over 400 hard-knocks as you call them per day in this country, often for misdemeanor-level offenses, and all too often they make mistakes on the address. Stupid little mistakes that even a tiny amount of due diligence would eliminate entirely.

Dave_pro2a said:

LEO are getting away with murder and it's intentional. They place law abiding citizens into a position where they SHOULD reasonably defend themselves with a firearm -- and then murder them for taking a totally reasonable action. Of course it's deemed 'justified.'

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The definition of whether a police shooting is justified these days seems to be "the officer said his life was in danger" with no consideration of circumstances. For a private citizen, circumstances matter; Someone who is caught in the act of burglary isn't allowed to claim self-defense even though their life really was in danger, for example. But a LEO merely has to claim (true or not) that he believed his life was in danger or felt threatened, and he has a free pass to kill whoever he wants.

With a no-knock warrant when people are asleep, odds are if the police do announce themselves loudly enough to be heard through a house wall, nobody will be awake to hear it. The first sign of trouble is the sound of the door being kicked in, and the entire point of a sudden no-knock entry is to disorient and confuse the inhabitants. But just about anyone who hangs out on this board will have a gun in hand long before the initial confusion wears off. There's a reason nobody but a fool shakes a soldier awake these days in a military barracks, that momentary confusion upon waking can cause training to kick in, and does. Shouting "POLICE" during that momentary confusion is useless, by the time the confused individual is thinking again, odds are that shots will have been fired. And remember, criminals like to shout "POLICE" too.

Yeah, it's illegal to resist someone serving a warrant, and it's illegal to shoot police. But it's not illegal to shoot armed robbers breaking into your home. If you honestly haven't heard the police identifying themselves, you have no way to know the difference. And even if you did hear, how do you know they're really police? If you wait for them to show ID, and they're not police, you and your family dies (rape before or after death optional), and the criminals win. But if you don't wait for ID, you die and your family may die with you (from "stray" bullets).

That's one hell of a problem.

Door Jam Armor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEUcQkM3TMQ

[video=youtube;EEUcQkM3TMQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEUcQkM3TMQ[/video]


Gives one time for some options:

• Ask the "knocker" to identify
• Call 911
• Egress from the dwelling or to a "safe room"
• Gear up and strap on for when or if they finally get the door open

Too bad we can't hang claymore mines on the inside of our front doors, activated only by someone kicking in the door.

amlevin said:

Too bad we can't hang claymore mines on the inside of our front doors, activated only by someone kicking in the door.

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You could but then you would be considered a terrorist and unconstitutionally considered an enemy combatant, your rights suspended and held for undetermined amount of time with out a trial or other "constitutional rights". Or they might just blow you up with a drone. With nothing much more than a shrug about the collateral damage.

Remember Blackstone's dictum ""better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" from 1760, during the founding of our Republic.

ETA: Amazing! In the common consciousness@

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm

bmg50cal said:

• Ask the "knocker" to identify
• Call 911
• Egress from the dwelling or to a "safe room"
• Gear up and strap on for when or if they finally get the door open

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That's some amazing stuff, considering how (relatively) easy the installation is. But there's other things you can do, though they would involve greater installation efforts.

I recall a story about a man who suffered a home invasion where the criminals literally crashed his front door with a car. His new front door is mounted to the frame around it with 2.5-ton truck leaf springs. The next person to try to ram his door down will BOUNCE.

Another possibility is a sliding pocket door. If the doorjamb is made of 8x8 timbers and the steel-cored door you put in there overlaps all four edges by six inches or so, the ram mounted on the police APC might not be able to batter that door open. Anyone kicking that door is bound for the hospital.

I'm currently saving up to buy my own home; Among the home improvements I have in mind is a securely-gated fence, and a digital audio/video recording system that kicks in when the fence/gate gets breached. The recordings will go to three places. An obvious memory module on the wall in the front hall, a less obvious one very well-hidden, and streamed to a third off-site. So if the police "forget" to announce themselves, the record will show it.

You can design windows to be able to pass in fresh air but be both shatterproof and too small an opening to put a flash/bang or gas grenade through. Aluminum siding over mobile-home grade framing prevents all kinds of mischief. A slate roof is both stylish and fireproof, terra cotta tiles for the miserly types. Pay off at least one neighbor to allow you to run a buried network cable under the back yard and back fence, connected to their house. They get free internet, you get a landline the police "negotiator" can't cut to prevent you from calling the media, after the SWAT team hits the front door and bounces off.

Most police, military and street gang forced entry tactics rely on standardized house building technology. They will eventually get in no matter what you do (even living in a decomissioned missile silo won't keep everybody out forever), but extending the duration of things so that they can't wake you from a sound sleep with a gun in your nostril, and making sure they can't cut your communications are wonderful things.

bmg50cal said:

Door Jam Armor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEUcQkM3TMQ

[video=youtube;EEUcQkM3TMQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEUcQkM3TMQ[/video]


Gives one time for some options:

• Ask the "knocker" to identify
• Call 911
• Egress from the dwelling or to a "safe room"
• Gear up and strap on for when or if they finally get the door open

Click to expand...

They need something like this for us renters who can't go tearing up door frames!

Germany has gone through several wars and had a bit of the "police state" thing to. When we lived in Germany our house WAS a fortress. Yes, it looked like a normal house, but consider: 1 meter thick reinforced concrete walls with a stone facing. The front door was steel, weight of about 700 lbs. the door jam was a large 0.5m steel I beam set in concrete, When you closed that door at night it sounded like closing a vault. All the windows and the patio door had very heavy roll down shutters that were built into the lintle and window fram,,,and were made of steel.. (also available in high impact plastic or wood)

Every time I hear of these "break down the door" home invasions, I think of that house. Nothing short of a tank could break into that house when it was in "secure" mode. I was told by our landlord that was exactly the idea; it had been built so the house could not be broken into by normal means. It would take nothing short of a tank to break in. Oh yes, the door knob on that front door did not work other than as a grab handle. The door opened electronically and had huge bolts that went from the center top and bottom into that big steel I beam (again like a vault).

In the 40 or so years we have lived in the US I have often thought of that house in Germany. I don't know that anyone in the US would pay to have a house like that built, but I sure would like one like that up here on this mountain, especially for when we lock up and go on holidays.

That door jam thing is pretty sweet. So are some of the other doors mentioned. Everyone forgot to mention door charges though. Explosives used by SWAT teams to breach bigger doors that can't be just knocked open. it also serves as a disorienter at the same time.

Redneck burgler alarm

This will not stop anyone from entering, but it will raise cain with their hearing

Trigger Dr said:

This will not stop anyone from entering, but it will raise cain with their hearing

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:shocker: now THAT'S a door chime!


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