PistolPackingMomma
Regular Member
And a no-knock warrant is a warrant.
Can you please cite a legal statute or something that backs this up?
And a no-knock warrant is a warrant.
Can you please cite a legal statute or something that backs this up?
I think in many ways I am still in a combat/military mindset.
And a no-knock warrant is a warrant.
Too bad we can't hang claymore mines on the inside of our front doors, activated only by someone kicking in the door.
I must have missed something. Where does it say you have to anounce your presence? Police frequently do anounce themselves before making entry anyways. And a no-knock warrant is a warrant.
You have to go deeper into the history of search warrants and their execution to find where things went off the rails. None of the Bill of Rights, except maybe the 3rd Amendment (quartering troops in homes), really conveys all the nuances in the plain text of the Amendment.
In times past, search warrants could only be executed during daylight hours. I happen to think this was a great way to avoid getting citizens into armed conflict with government agents who could be mistaken for criminals, getting both sides hurt.
In times past, the warrant was presented to the search-ee. Today, in some jurisdictions, the warrant need not even be on the scene if I recall.
Around the time of the Founding, in some states, a magistrate who improperly issued a search warrant was liable for triple damages, as well as the searcher.
The previous was meant to be conceptual and due to foggy recall may not be precisely accurate in all particulars. But, it conveys an overall concept.
The courts have been slowly eroding our protections for decades. Or, more precisely, police lacking a strict rule against some trick or tactic did what they wanted and then sometimes the courts would sanction it after the fact. No-kock warrants and even high-risk warrants are part of that.
You also have the whole angle of give an inch, and police will take two inches. For example, there have been many cases of the "knock" not being heard, sometimes by innocents in the very room. Pay attention to that. It wasn't a criminal trying to weasel out of something who said it wasn't heard; it was an innocent who was on the wrong end of the mistaken warrant. So, there is evidence that police when required to knock aren't exactly doing a whole lot to make sure the occupants know it is the police on the outside.
You have a number of variations on the theme of the occupant not recognizing it is police. The guy was asleep. He was downstairs watching TV. He was (insert reason here).
A really, really big reason this is coming up is because so many low-risk search warrants are now being executed by SWAT. Hey, these guys and their training has to be used somewhere. The increase in the number of SWAT teams is astounding. As is the the number of times they're used.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you bang on a door, yell police a couple times, wait 10 -12 seconds and then pound the door down, there are going to be plenty of circumstances where people just don't know for sure its the cops coming through the door because they were asleep, in the bath, watching TV with the volume loud, etc., etc, etc.
People are dying. Pet dogs are being shot, sometimes even when they're tied up. Innocent families are being terrorized. And there is rarely an apology for any mistakes.
You wouldn't think it would take language in a constitutional amendment to conduct searches only in daylight. Nor, a solid knock and wait until the owner appeared. You'd think decency or tradition would cover it.
But, here is the crucial point, I believe. Announcing your presence, showing a warrant, waiting for the owner to step aside prove one thing--that the citizen is recognized as such and is being given a chance to willingly submit to the authority granted in the warrant. These raids undercut all that. These raids say, "You will comply NOW!" while there is a gun in your face and somebody else is throwing your daughter to the floor. Involuntary submission to force, without the chance to voluntarily submit. They don't care whether you have time to consider that there is lawful authority behind it. They don't want you to comply of your own will to a warrant exhibited. They want you to comply with the guns and the tasers. NOW! DO IT NOW!! That tells you everything you need to know about the mindset behind these raids.
SNIP I'll bet that the numbers of successful/justified entries far out number the false/unjustified entries. People in general seem to just want to complain about stuff.
You don't have to bet. Just start reading the material at the links already given. Sort them into 1) a news report on a raid, and 2) stats on raids, and 3) analysis on raids by liberty-minded people.
The picture will come together for you.
You have a huge advantage many of us didn't. You are being presented with tons of material all at once. Most of us had to come across this stuff ourselves across the course of months or years. You're getting access to it in practically one occurrence.
The bottom line is that the "justification" for SWAT raids has been shifting since the 1980's. The courts have been going along with it one piece at a time, but nobody until maybe 2006 or so has really looked at it overall and seen where we've arrived to as each "justification" set the premise that led to the next which set a new premise which led to the next...until here we are today where tons of even low-risk and no-risk warrants are being executed by SWAT.
You don't have to bet. Just start reading the material at the links already given. Sort them into 1) a news report on a raid, and 2) stats on raids, and 3) analysis on raids by liberty-minded people.
The picture will come together for you.
You have a huge advantage many of us didn't. You are being presented with tons of material all at once. Most of us had to come across this stuff ourselves across the course of months or years. You're getting access to it in practically one occurrence.
The bottom line is that the "justification" for SWAT raids has been shifting since the 1980's. The courts have been going along with it one piece at a time, but nobody until maybe 2006 or so has really looked at it overall and seen where we've arrived to as each "justification" set the premise that led to the next which set a new premise which led to the next...until here we are today where tons of even low-risk and no-risk warrants are being executed by SWAT.
This.
Hang around this forum long enough Decklin, and it will start to influence how you think. Usually for the better.
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Bet thats illegal to .........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZcYou CAN hook up a multi head propane powered heater with electronic ignition, with jets strategically placed to heat up the area immediately in front of the door to say... 800*..... for about 20$ in parts...
Bet thats illegal to .........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc
http://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Good-Intentions-Prosecutors-Constitution/dp/0307396061 2008 #44 in Civil RightsI may suggest a book to read, "Tyranny of good intention, how prosecutors and law enforcement are trampling the constitution in the name of justice" by Roberts and Stratton.
A no-knock, in Missouri, is clearly in violation of this statute. But LE conducts them anyway....go figure.Officer may break open doors. 544.200. To make an arrest in criminal actions, the officer may break open any outer or inner door or window of a dwelling house or other building, or any other enclosure, if, after notice of his office and purpose, he be refused admittance.