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Thread: NRA prohibits on-line certification. OCDO-VA "Online CHP Course Declined ..."

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    NRA prohibits on-line certification. OCDO-VA "Online CHP Course Declined ..."

    Tail wagging the dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    As an NRA certified instructor, I recently received written instructions from the NRA telling me that I'm prohibited from using their name or certification credentials in connection with an online course. New policy. So there's no such thing (as a purely legal matter) as an online course taught by an NRA certified instructor, because the NRA does not certify instructors to present online courses. Moreover, the unauthorized use of NRA's identity in connection with such a course could get one sued in a really big way by the NRA, should they choose to push it. They did indicate that they will cancel the credentials immediately if they hear of anyone violating their policy.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...18#post1680018

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    They hinted that they can't support the idea that a person can become "proficient" by taking an online course. They actually do have a rule that says an NRA certified instructor can only use his NRA credentials in teaching NRA courses, but they tell me that they're not pressing that one, because it's in their interest to have as many gun owners out there getting some kind of training and perhaps becoming members of the organization. But they think that online courses are so far beyond the minimum standards, and subject to abuse, that they can't allow their name to be used in connection with 'em. I strongly suspect there's a civil litigation reason hiding in that woodpile somewhere.[my emphasis]
    Follow the money.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 01-09-2012 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    From another guns forum

    From another gun forum

    Because of this loophole, a sham class is as legitimate as an National Rifle Association of America (NRA) class.

    The courts must accept any piece of paper which states the instructor’s NRA identification number as a valid diploma.

    It was only a matter of time until the above loophole was exploited and online vending machines were setup to dispense diplomas that had to be accepted by the court for the purpose of obtaining a Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun.

    On November 7, 2011 the NRA announced a change in training policy. In it, NRA instructors are no longer permitted to use the association’s name or state their NRA identification number. The text of the announcement is below.

    Online diploma mills are nothing more than money making machines.

    ANNOUCEMENT BY NRA –
    Dear NRA Instructors and Training Counselors:

    Due to NRA's long history of facilitating quality firearm training, the public expects a high standard for training programs bearing the NRA name. Maintaining the high quality of the training programs is of the upmost importance.

    The National Rifle Association of America currently has no online firearm training courses. All of our firearm training courses (Home Firearm Safety excluded) have a shooting component on a range. Some NRA certified instructors have created online firearm training programs, and have issued certificates to individuals that take their courses, using the title NRA Certified Instructor. Under no circumstances may NRA's name or your NRA credentials be associated with any online firearms training course. If NRA's name or your NRA credentials are associated with a course, you must, among other things, actually work with the students, face-to-face, to allow you to evaluate whether they perform the safe operation of a firearm, and shoot with a sufficient level of skill. This policy applies to any course which might result in issuing any certificate that bears the title of NRA Certified Instructor, or if the course is associated in any way whatsoever with a certification issued by the NRA.

    While NRA allows NRA Certified Instructors to use their titles in association with courses that are not NRA courses, as long as they make a very clear disclaimer that such courses are not NRA approved, the use of a disclaimer is not sufficient to allow you to use NRA's name or your NRA credentials in connection with an online course. In other words, your NRA credentials and the NRA's name, trademarks, titles identification numbers, etc. may not be associated with any online firearm training course, regardless of whether there is a statement that it is not an NRA course.

    We have even found online courses with titles such as: "NRA CCW Course,"NRA Home Defense," and so on, that are not NRA sanctioned courses. NRA Instructors are not authorized to create a title of a course which includes "NRA," "National Rifle Association," or any other wording that makes a non-NRA course appear to be an NRA course.

    Violation of these policies may result in revocation of your NRA credentials. If you have any questions concerning this policy, please contact the NRA Training Department.


    Yours Truly,
    Charles H. Mitchell
    Manager, NRA Training Department.

  3. #3
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Why does it matter what the NRA thinks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Tail wagging the dog?



    Follow the money.
    Which money do you suggest following?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    Why does it matter what the NRA thinks?
    Exactly.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  6. #6
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Which money do you suggest following?
    From the OCDO-VA subforum
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    More training equals more money for them, who would have thought that.

    Unfortunately, so many are falling for it.
    American gun owners would never fall for gun registration but they are lining up for gun owner registration.


    I don't see the NRA pushing for the rights of folks to carry without government intervention.


    For all those that need a training class. A hunter safety course is legal as proof of training and the class is usually offered free of charge.
    Why put money in the NRA's pocket.
    While I do believe folks need to have some training I don't believe it should be mandatory.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    This is why I cannot support the NRA.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    From the OCDO-VA subforum
    Don't blindly believe everything you see posted on an internet forum. Look to the state requirements. Other states have different requirements. In fact, the state I am in has state-mandated curriculum for CC, which cannot be an NRA course.

    Since that post you cite indicates 'a hunter safety course is legal proof,' no money to the NRA, thus it fulfills your desire, right? The money goes to the course instructor.

    And, while the OP cite (which has no link to validate it) indicates a 'change' of policy, it simply reiterates the prior policy of the NRA, whereby the only courses allowed to include "NRA" somewhere, are authorized curricula. Since the NRA has NO online course curricula, those instructors were already violating NRA policy. In this case, the 'new' policy appears to simply be the original policy, with "NO online courses" explicitly stated. They still weren't authorized, implicitly.
    Last edited by wrightme; 01-09-2012 at 03:13 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    This is why I cannot support the NRA.
    No, that is why you choose to not support the NRA. You can, but you choose to not do so.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    NRA Certified Instructor Policy Update, dated 08 November 2011

    http://www.nrablog.com/post/2011/11/...cy-Update.aspx

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrin Brinkman
    Attention all NRA Certified Instructors! Below is a policy update from the Training Department for all NRA Certified Instructors and Training Counselors regarding online firearms training courses. For those interested in taking an NRA firearms training course, please remember that the NRA does not offer online training for these courses, and that any online course for firearms training is not associated with or recognized by the NRA.
    And now I must bathe after ...
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 01-09-2012 at 05:27 PM. Reason: You can lead an ass to water but you can't make it drink

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    You just don't understand that this isn't a new policy? It is simply restating and clarifying existing policy. No NRA-approved course for NRA instructors to teach has ever been authorized to be 'online.' Those instructors who created such, and especially when stating "NRA" somewhere in the course title, were already in violation of policy, and in danger of having their teaching credential revoked.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Don't blindly believe everything you see posted on an internet forum. Look to the state requirements. Other states have different requirements. In fact, the state I am in has state-mandated curriculum for CC, which cannot be an NRA course.
    That's why this is in the Wisconsin subforum, it has not a damn thing to with Harry Reid's dogs.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 01-09-2012 at 05:43 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    That's why this is in the Wisconsin subforum, it has not a damn thing to with Harry Reed's dogs.
    What is your intended meaning of "Harry Reed's dogs?"

    My responses have nothing to do with Reid.

    There is a world of difference between "NRA course" and "course taught by an NRA-certified instructor." Nevada is a good example, where the course can be taught by an NRA-certified instructor, but the curriculum has nothing to do with the NRA at all. Does WI require an NRA course?
    Last edited by wrightme; 01-09-2012 at 05:42 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  14. #14
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    What is your intended meaning of "Harry Reed's dogs?"

    My responses have nothing to do with Reid.

    There is a world of difference between "NRA course" and "course taught by an NRA-certified instructor." Nevada is a good example, where the course can be taught by an NRA-certified instructor, but the curriculum has nothing to do with the NRA at all. Does WI require an NRA course?
    No.

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