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Found Guilty in St. joseph

Reverend BCal

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
130
Location
Saint Joseph, Missouri, USA
I was found guilty in municipal court this morning of trespass and disorderly conduct relating to my two encounters with SJPD at HyVee. One officer blatantly lied in court about the trespass directly affecting the judge's opinion. The judge also refused to allow me to question the officer's knowledge of the city and state laws as they pertain to the charges. I'm upset and sickened by the judgement made. While the fines are relatively low, I'm heavily considering an appeal. This will double my fines and require more money that I don't have. I represented myself this time thinking that there was sufficient evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was in the right. Should I appeal this, spend the money and fight for what is right? Or should I cut my losses, accept this as a frustrating failure and recognize that this cop will lie again in appeals? I'm so mad I'm sick to my stomach.
 
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mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
I was found guilty in municipal court this morning of trespass and disorderly conduct relating to my two encounters with SJPD at HyVee. One officer blatantly lied in court about the trespass directly affecting the judge's opinion. The judge also refused to allow me to question the officer's knowledge of the city and state laws as they pertain to the charges. I'm upset and sickened by the judgement made. While the fines are rellatively low, I'm heavily considering an appeal. This will double my fines and require more money that I don't have. I represented myself this time thinking that there was sufficient evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was in the right. Should I appeal this, spend the money and fight for what is right? Or should I cut my losses, accept this as a frustrating failure and recognize that this cop will lie again in appeals? I'm so mad I'm sick to my stomach.

Does this relate to having an open carry firearm?
"Charges" related?
 

kcgunfan

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
1,002
Location
KC
Yes, of course...

This is in relation to previous posts about my harassment and subsequent arrest at HyVee for open carry.

Consider posting the original link. I remember the incident, but others might not.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
If you think you have a strong case for appeal I would talk to your local 2nd amendment organization to see if they would be willing to start a fund. If your case could affect a large number of gun owners then I am sure others will donate.

That being said, if you are not an attorney, I don't recommend that one defen themselves in court. You will almost always lose a he said/she said argument with a cop. (not criticism towards you, just general advice towards all)
 
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G30Mike

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
120
Location
St. Joseph MO
This is ridiculous. Doesn't surprise me in the least that it went this way though. COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: LEO Bashing

Personally I would have requested a public defender if you qualified for one. I don't think you can get one for an appeal, but I could be wrong. You could also try legal aid. I know there is a legal aid office in town.

Sorry to hear the crappy news. Hit me up sometime and we can meet up for coffee at McDs or something.
 
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Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
I was found guilty in municipal court this morning of trespass and disorderly conduct relating to my two encounters with SJPD at HyVee. One officer blatantly lied in court about the trespass directly affecting the judge's opinion. The judge also refused to allow me to question the officer's knowledge of the city and state laws as they pertain to the charges. I'm upset and sickened by the judgement made. While the fines are rellatively low, I'm heavily considering an appeal. This will double my fines and require more money that I don't have. I represented myself this time thinking that there was sufficient evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was in the right. Should I appeal this, spend the money and fight for what is right? Or should I cut my losses, accept this as a frustrating failure and recognize that this cop will lie again in appeals? I'm so mad I'm sick to my stomach.

I hate to say this... BUT NO MATTER WHAT, if you ever have to go to court... ALWAYS HAVE A LAWYER. Make a short story short, I went in for coustdy case with my son (who lives with me). The law basically explains that the supporting parent will pay about 24%. But after a year she was paying support, she taken me to court to have her payment reduced, even though her sallary only changed by 3%???? THey taken 1/3 of the support away, mainly because she had a lawyer and I didn't. Talk about UNFAIR.

Sorry to hear that you experince that.... I PROMISE YOU... if you had a lawyer with you, it would have been a different story. My opinion, go an appeal it (with a lawyer).

Keep this in mind... in any court of "the law". If you have not went through the school and earn a bar assication sticker... you will receive NO respect in court. So when you start to question and ask questions... they basically treat you as if you have no business to do so. Its the plain truth and it hurts. many lawyers will work out a payment with you.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
You said this was municipal court so you likely have an automatic appeal option to associate court but there are time limits to do that. And as said, you need an attorney. You need someone who knows the rules in your local court if you want a good chance of beating this.

I appeared in municipal court on a minor matter that my then boss who was an attorney told me was no big deal and advised me that I didn't need an atty over. The judge threw the book at me and fined me the maximum, 3X what an atty would have cost, not because what I was accussed of was any big deal but in her words, "someone as articulate and well dressed as you should have known better". It wasn't even a criminal charge but an infraction (totally unrelated to firearms). A few years later when I had a corporation, a corporate atty and a personal atty, my atty told me that had I called him about that situation he could have got it dismissed easily and to NEVER go to any court, even for a minor traffic ticket without my atty.
 

Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
You said this was municipal court so you likely have an automatic appeal option to associate court but there are time limits to do that. And as said, you need an attorney. You need someone who knows the rules in your local court if you want a good chance of beating this.

I appeared in municipal court on a minor matter that my then boss who was an attorney told me was no big deal and advised me that I didn't need an atty over. The judge threw the book at me and fined me the maximum, 3X what an atty would have cost, not because what I was accussed of was any big deal but in her words, "someone as articulate and well dressed as you should have known better". It wasn't even a criminal charge but an infraction (totally unrelated to firearms). A few years later when I had a corporation, a corporate atty and a personal atty, my atty told me that had I called him about that situation he could have got it dismissed easily and to NEVER go to any court, even for a minor traffic ticket without my atty.

Sad isn't it? Sorry for your stuggle brother. I hope people do not take our experinces as (oh a one time thing). EVERYONE... do not confuse court tv such as; Judge Judy, Joe Brown, etc as "real life". On tv, and THEIR court room they allow certain things to happen because they want viewers. Try that "tone" or language in any court... and you will find yourself either in; jail, dismissed case, or you paying a huge fine... before you can say... "hey I seen that on tv...". EVEN in small claims court... I highly suggest hiring a lawyer to prepare you. This is my .02 cents but I promise you its worth a million bucks.
 
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ecocks

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,040
Location
USA
So, I am sorry to hear about what happened to the OP.

As usual, he should stay quiet pending conclusion of his legal situation.

In the meantime, could someone tell me what Hyvee is and whether they have some sort of stand on the 2A in general, OC or CC in particular? Is there history with these folks?
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
Another thing I have learned sitting through some trials, appearing as an eye-witness in 2 and expert witness in 1, and literally looking through thousands of court cases as part of my job, is that outside of small claims court, there are a lot of rules. There are state rules and local rules of the court. There are rules about what you can ask, when you can ask, how you can ask, who you can ask. Watching defendents go pro se you see a constant stream of admonitions from the judge about those rules. Just the reality and a good reason to have an attorney to help you wade through the system which is sometimes more important than the facts.
 

G30Mike

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
120
Location
St. Joseph MO
So, I am sorry to hear about what happened to the OP.

As usual, he should stay quiet pending conclusion of his legal situation.

In the meantime, could someone tell me what Hyvee is and whether they have some sort of stand on the 2A in general, OC or CC in particular? Is there history with these folks?

Hyvee is a grocery store. They do not have no weapons signs posted. There is an on duty officer that hangs out near the registers for whatever reason, especially late at night.
Id imagine if they had anything against firearms the store would be posted.
I and my family absolutely refuse to shop there anymore. I personally avoid it like the plague.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
I'm sorry to hear it. It sounds like you got railroaded. Everyone in the building was on the government's side, except you. Those are hard odds to beat.

I have to ask, though:
While the fines are rellatively low, I'm heavily considering an appeal. This will double my fines and require more money that I don't have.
Wait... what? They will double your fines if you appeal? How is that consistent with your right to appeal?
 

Reverend BCal

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
130
Location
Saint Joseph, Missouri, USA
I'm sorry to hear it. It sounds like you got railroaded. Everyone in the building was on the government's side, except you. Those are hard odds to beat.

I have to ask, though:

Wait... what? They will double your fines if you appeal? How is that consistent with your right to appeal?

The courts require double your fines as bond in the appeals process. This is outside of the $30 per charge filing fee. It's ridiculous.

I'm sorry I'm being vague about the situation. It's taxing on the mind and the family to actually have to consider weighing right and wrong and have to base your decision on finances.
 
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