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Found Guilty in St. joseph

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
This was simply in front of a judge. I'm not sure if I can now request a jury for appeals in circuit court. I do believe that this would have positively affected the judgement, though.

My understanding is that, generally, appeals cannot be based on the facts of the case but rather the argument that some error was committed in the trial that prejudiced the outcome. Appeals are always heard by judges rather than juries.
 
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Marc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
184
Location
St. Joseph, Missouri, USA
Sorry how it went BCal, but from my lengthy experience in Judge Boeh's courtroom, the only way you can win is if the cop forgets to show up. Judge Nix was cool and fair, but Boeh will always believe a cop over a citizen even when you bring 3 eyewitnesses( I know i had this happen to me but the cops word stood above mine and my 3 witnesses) If u ever plan to fight a charge in front of Boeh you need a good lawyer and witnesses to back up your side along with video evidence or you will absolutely be found guilty simply on the cops statement.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
This was simply in front of a judge. I'm not sure if I can now request a jury for appeals in circuit court. I do believe that this would have positively affected the judgement, though.

Typically an appeal from municipal court would go to Associate Court ratherr than Circuit Court although there certainly may be local rules or specifics of the charges that make this different, IANAL.

Appeal to AC from MC here is pretty simple as limitations on presentation of evidence, etc is limited in MC so a bad decision pro se there is easily appealed by an atty to AC (at least that is how the lawyer explained it several years ago to a friend of mine in that situation - lwe won in AC). Again that could very well be be local rules. This is why you need a lawyer.
 

lancers

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
231
Location
St. Louis, Missouri, USA
The courts require double your fines as bond in the appeals process. This is outside of the $30 per charge filing fee. It's ridiculous.

I'm sorry I'm being vague about the situation. It's taxing on the mind and the family to actually have to consider weighing right and wrong and have to base your decision on finances.


They don't always require a bond twice the fine for the appeal.

As others have said, your next step is a trial de novo. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C400-499/4790000200.HTM . The cost for this is only $30 and it is automatic assuming you file it within 10 days. I believe this is calendar days. This is assuming it was tried by a judge, not a jury. It's like you get to redo your trial without the town's own judge being involved.

If you were to lose that, you would be filing an appeal through the court of appeals. The cost of that is $70 and you will need to have the state make a transcript of your trial, which depending on the number of pages, will be about $150 for a trial like yours. After that, the only real costs are making copies -pages and pages of copies- of everything you file to the court and postage.

The appeal to the Missouri Court of Appeals will have to be based on errors made in the lower court. Simply trying to argue your case or point of view will get your appeal tossed in a summary judgement. In addition, you have to be sure to contest the errors made in the lower court at the first reasonable time. This means either before or during trial. If you forget to object to inadmissible evidence by the city when they submit it into evidence, don't even bother with it in your appeal; The CoA will not address it 99.5% of the time. It's called preserving the errors for appeal. After the next trial, if you were to lose, you would also make a motion for retrial based on any and all errors you might consider in your appeal. The judge will most likely rule against your motion (because he is not going to admit he was wrong), but this will be essential for your appeal to the CoA.

Even if you have objected to an error, filed a motion for retrial, filed a timely appeal, filed all the required documents for your appeal, perfected your appeal to meet all of the court's requirements (font size, colors or paper, format, citations, index, etc.), and the appeals court finds the lower court made an error, it still doesn't mean your conviction will be overturned. It the error is minor, and the CoA figures you would have been found guilty regardless of the error, you will lose the appeal. Also, if that error is significant, the court may remand the case back to the lower to court to redo it. Instructions will be given about the error and how evidence may or may not be used in the new trial.

I would at least do the trial de novo. Be sure to file a motion to dismiss before trial though stating Constitutional reasons why the charge should be dropped. Make the city do some work and not just get the cop up on the stand to lie. In my experience, city prosecutors of towns don't like to do all of that and normally assume they can just show up to court and come up with some reason on the fly. Sometimes they just think since it's the local judge they work with all of the time, he will accept it; sometimes he is right. Other times, I've had judge toss the case because the PA didn't have his legal argument ready and presented to the court, on paper. Being in trial de novo, he won't be working with his buddy judge, and will be more in a real court setting and not "kangaroo court". The judge at this level may very well toss the case if the PA doesn't respond to your motion to dismiss.

Whatever you choose, best of luck. If you have more questions about the appeal process, you can PM me; I have some useful documents.
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
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Good advice from lancers.

Not going to tell you to skip the lawyer though, but if you do, pay attention to what was said.

GET A LAWYER
 

Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
I just wanted to STRESS this point once more.... in the court of law..."common sense" does not play a role in court. Even though it can be looked at it that way, etc. If the law says one thing and then REMEMBER THIS.... The judge have the "power" to adjust it to a certain extent. Because "I am the law". You can be 100% correct... but not knowing the rules involved in presenting your case and not having the right "status" (being a lawyer)... you have about as much chance as a known drug dealer who have 6 counts of murder in his resent past trying to plea a "innocent" verdict. People just look at you at a certain way... and you are not their "peers" when you stand up in court.
 

RPGamingGirl

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
62
Location
SW MO
1. Call every lawyer in the phone book. Point out that this is potentially a law-changing case, and would they be interested in offering their services to the cause (or at a discounted rate, at least).

2. Call your local news channels. This is a story of public interest! If it makes it on the 5pm news, you'll have lawyers tripping over themselves for your case.

3. Call the local papers. Same reason. No matter the outcome, people should know this is happening. There should be a reporter somewhere who agrees.
 

G30Mike

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
120
Location
St. Joseph MO
1. Call every lawyer in the phone book. Point out that this is potentially a law-changing case, and would they be interested in offering their services to the cause (or at a discounted rate, at least).

2. Call your local news channels. This is a story of public interest! If it makes it on the 5pm news, you'll have lawyers tripping over themselves for your case.

3. Call the local papers. Same reason. No matter the outcome, people should know this is happening. There should be a reporter somewhere who agrees.

I like this. If you decide to contact either KQ2 or the Newspress and you need any help, don't hesitate to ask. This kind of ruling effects all of us who open carry in town and makes the police think they can get away with arresting all of us just on obstruction or trespass if they demand ID from us and we legally refuse it.
We definitely need to stand up for our rights, and ill stand shoulder to shoulder with you to help fight for the cause. I might not have much money, but I do have a voice and I've never been afraid to fight for what is right.
 

REALteach4u

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
428
Location
Spfld, Mo.
I was found guilty in municipal court this morning of trespass and disorderly conduct relating to my two encounters with SJPD at HyVee. One officer blatantly lied in court about the trespass directly affecting the judge's opinion. The judge also refused to allow me to question the officer's knowledge of the city and state laws as they pertain to the charges. I'm upset and sickened by the judgement made. While the fines are relatively low, I'm heavily considering an appeal. This will double my fines and require more money that I don't have. I represented myself this time thinking that there was sufficient evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was in the right. Should I appeal this, spend the money and fight for what is right? Or should I cut my losses, accept this as a frustrating failure and recognize that this cop will lie again in appeals? I'm so mad I'm sick to my stomach.

From what I can tell you represented yourself. HUGE mistake. It's easy for a jerk cop and a jerk judge to work together against you, after all the cop is considered a trustworthy figure in court. Bring your A-game and by all means bring a lawyer willing to sue over such a case.

Get right on top of what RPGamingGirl just posted. PRONTO!
 
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Marc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
184
Location
St. Joseph, Missouri, USA
I agree with G30 mike , i have no money but i will talk to the media and let them know my opinions, i can talk all day about our rights i just cant afford a lawyer to say it for me. We can have a press conference, maybe you can even get Sam in on that one. Lets make the bullcrap in this town stop and get our rights back.
 
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chakragod

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
100
Location
St. Joseph, MO
Darn, I just lost my connection at KQ2...but I might be able to find out about the news press..I have a friend or two that work there.
 

G30Mike

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
120
Location
St. Joseph MO
Now, I've never protested or anything before, but id be up for it and I can get two, possibly 3-4 other people to join us if we decided to do something like that. All open carrying of course. I bet if we put something like that together, and had enough people, KQ2 might just come out if they're bored to cover it.
Never been involved with anything like this, but just throwing some ideas out there.
Its been pretty nice outside this winter, so this could be an option.
We can start a new thread and arrange something if any other St. Joe or even KC people would want to do it. We really need to make the PD aware we aren't going to take their crap.
 

LMTD

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From what I can tell you represented yourself. HUGE mistake. It's easy for a jerk cop and a jerk judge to work together against you, after all the cop is considered a trustworthy figure in court. Bring your A-game and by all means bring a lawyer willing to sue over such a case.

Get right on top of what RPGamingGirl just posted. PRONTO!


Yep, judge indeed employed by city prosecuting not where you want the trial to take place.

You have really only 2 choices, suck it up and just pay it off to find yourself falsely convicted, hire a lawyer to obtain justice. Anything else has a huge chance of being totally futile.
 

Reverend BCal

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
130
Location
Saint Joseph, Missouri, USA
To Lancers and RPGamingGirl: Thank you for the fantastic ideas!!! I'll be speaking with an attorney come Monday and will bring up all the information gathered with your help. I will also speak to him about taking this to the news. This is unacceptable behavior and I think the people of greater St. Joe would be sympathetic to the truth.

To Marc, Mike, Tyrus, Sam (IF YOU'RE STILL HERE, SAM!!!) and any interested KC folks: I'd love to get together VERY SOON and discuss the particulars of a mass public statement. You are all brave individuals and I appreciate your support, especially in this town. Any help with local news contacts or connections would only serve to strengthen this fight. We need to let everyone know that injustice will not be tolerated and that we are not sheeple. Having said that, I'm just as much of an armchair warrior as the next. It's easy to be comfortable behind your keyboard and go with the flow. This is the type of unfortunate motivation that our group needs to get up, speak out and change something, or risk losing our rights.

My soapbox is straining from all of this weight

Thanks for your support, everyone. I can't wait to see how this pans out. PM me for contact info, questions or advice/suggestions/ideas. My email is also located on the Missouri Open Carry website under links. http://www.missouriopencarry.org/links.html
 

Big Boy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
443
Location
STL, MO
If there is any planned out date for an OC event in St. Joe I will attend. For me it just has to be enough notice to ask off and drive the 3 hours there. I can't believe so many of us sat across the street from this very Hy-Vee at Starbucks. Literally just across the street with 10+ OC'ers and no cops. Ridiculous how they are treating you.
 

CrimsonSoul

Regular Member
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Mar 17, 2009
Messages
144
Location
, ,
Sad isn't it? Sorry for your stuggle brother. I hope people do not take our experinces as (oh a one time thing). EVERYONE... do not confuse court tv such as; Judge Judy, Joe Brown, etc as "real life". On tv, and THEIR court room they allow certain things to happen because they want viewers. Try that "tone" or language in any court... and you will find yourself either in; jail, dismissed case, or you paying a huge fine... before you can say... "hey I seen that on tv...". EVEN in small claims court... I highly suggest hiring a lawyer to prepare you. This is my .02 cents but I promise you its worth a million bucks.

Just putting this out there, but "judge" Judy and joe brown aren't actual judges ( I know Judy isn't I dunno about joe brown) but are instead mediators or arbitrators I can't remember which one but u think they are arbitrators.
 

ecocks

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Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,040
Location
USA
Just putting this out there, but "judge" Judy and joe brown aren't actual judges ( I know Judy isn't I dunno about joe brown) but are instead mediators or arbitrators I can't remember which one but u think they are arbitrators.

Both Brown and Sheindlin are former judges. Brown was a prosecutor in Memphis, later appointed to the TN Court system, while Sheindlin was in New York as both a criminal and family court judge.
 

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I have never had an issue going pro se. You make objections, citing case law, and the judge rules. He rules wrong? Then it preserved for appeal.

Asking the cop about the law? Its not relevant testimony nor is it within his area of expertise.

And I never ask questions I don't know how the person will respond...it can only lead to shooting yourself in the foot.
 
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