Police to rethink SWAT and/or military style raids?

Brion · Jan 12, 2012

1st, if you have drugs in the house, I have no sympathy if you get your door kicked in, your teeth kicked in, or you dog getting blasted.:banghead:
2nd, if you do not have drugs in the house and you get your door kicked in, your teeth kicked in, or your dog get's blasted, then I 100% support you going and getting every single penny you can from the Taxpayer. :banana:
Make sure you scream this fact as loud as you can from the tallest building you can, on every radio station you can, and every TV station you can, 'till the "professional" Law Enforcement Agencies start to perform like the professionals they are suppost to be by having all of their :cuss: in one sock before they execute.

Gig'em!

Deanimator · Jan 12, 2012

Brion said:
1st, if you have drugs in the house, I have no sympathy if you get your door kicked in, your teeth kicked in, or you dog getting blasted.:banghead:
2nd, if you do not have drugs in the house and you get your door kicked in, your teeth kicked in, or your dog get's blasted, then I 100% support you going and getting every single penny you can from the Taxpayer. :banana:
Make sure you scream this fact as loud as you can from the tallest building you can, on every radio station you can, and every TV station you can, 'till the "professional" Law Enforcement Agencies start to perform like the professionals they are suppost to be by having all of their :cuss: in one sock before they execute.

Gig'em!

A lot of settlements have non-disclosure clauses in them. That's why were I to be the victim of one of these raids, I'd never settle. Of course my lawyer thinks nothing of lining through and signing clauses in contracts to see if the other will let it slide.

It needs to be common knowledge what the police are costing the community in settlements and judgments due to their negligence and malice.

DocWalker · Jan 12, 2012

The latest was this week in Ogden Utah. A drug task force raided a Iraqi veterans home on suspision he had marijiana plants. They started the raid at night around 9pm and came in on a no-knock and he shot 6 of the officers killing one before he was secured with one wound himself.

My questions is was it necessary for a no-knock and tactical response on the rumor over a marijunia plant?

Why didn't they do intel and find out if the suspect was going to work at wallmart at 11pm and take him down there or when he got into his car?

In all the stories I have read and seen none of them have confirmed that they actually found any drugs. The Veterens father said his son has PTSD from Iraq and does use marijuana sometime, but is that a reason to do a tactical raid at night?

The LEO's didn't know he was a veteran, they all filed through the front door into his killing zone, they didn't even bother to do this at a better time.

This is all LEO's falt one of their own was killed, they handled this all wrong. When a bunch of armed gunmen break in your door you don't even have a second to decide if it is the bad guys or the cops....it used to be illegal for cops to do this to American Citizens without due process.

MKEgal · Jan 12, 2012

DocWalker said:
Iraqi veteran... shot 6 of the officers killing one before he was secured with one wound himself.

That says an awful lot about the great training he had in the military.

was it necessary for a no-knock and tactical response on the rumor over a marijunia plant?

Obviously not. You've given several better, less dangerous ways to handle the situation.

LEO's... all filed through the front door into his killing zone

Whether or not they even suspected he was a vet or had a gun, it's a dumb thing to do.

This is all LEO's falt one of their own was killed, they handled this all wrong.
When a bunch of armed gunmen break in your door you don't even have a second to decide if it is the bad guys or the cops...
it used to be illegal for cops to do this to American Citizens without due process.

I agree, though this will probably be an unpopular opinion.
And I'm trying to find some way of rewording the "bad guys or cops" phrase w/o it being cop bashing...
The street thugs or the people with badges who ignore the Constitution?

Brion · Jan 12, 2012

DocWalker said:
The latest was this week in Ogden Utah. A drug task force raided a Iraqi veterans home on suspision he had marijiana plants. They started the raid at night around 9pm and came in on a no-knock and he shot 6 of the officers killing one before he was secured with one wound himself.

My questions is was it necessary for a no-knock and tactical response on the rumor over a marijunia plant?

Why didn't they do intel and find out if the suspect was going to work at wallmart at 11pm and take him down there or when he got into his car?

In all the stories I have read and seen none of them have confirmed that they actually found any drugs. The Veterens father said his son has PTSD from Iraq and does use marijuana sometime, but is that a reason to do a tactical raid at night?

The LEO's didn't know he was a veteran, they all filed through the front door into his killing zone, they didn't even bother to do this at a better time.

This is all LEO's falt one of their own was killed, they handled this all wrong. When a bunch of armed gunmen break in your door you don't even have a second to decide if it is the bad guys or the cops....it used to be illegal for cops to do this to American Citizens without due process.

How he walked away from that is a suprise to me. I'd have expect after any cop was shot that he would have been executed on the spot. But at least all the other cops in that situation had at least a little honor and didn't unload on him. Just following orders, right boys?

VW_Factor · Jan 12, 2012

The Ogden incident, did they even have a warrant secured?

Police raids without a warrants.. Those guys are no different than BG's performing a home invasion IMO.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 13, 2012

Deanimator said:
A lot of settlements have non-disclosure clauses in them. That's why were I to be the victim of one of these raids, I'd never settle. Of course my lawyer thinks nothing of lining through and signing clauses in contracts to see if the other will let it slide.

It needs to be common knowledge what the police are costing the community in settlements and judgments due to their negligence and malice.

It's one reason I settled with my local police for a smaller amount, I didn't want a non disclosure agreement.

These raids are more common than people think, just search local area and even not so big cities like mine you'll find they conduct several a year.

A kid that worked for me Fathers house was broken into in such a raid, because the kid who worked for me had a heroin habit, he had several injuries and surgeries and was bed ridden, in the living room, the officers were callously talking about shooting his dog, and how they should burn the place down, started yelling at him because of his pellet gun that wasn't even within his reach. He feels if it wasn't for the interjection of the Sheriff the city cops may have very well escalated it to another level. And his kid wasn't even there.

And he paid me to fix the broken front door and other damage.

sidestreet · Jan 13, 2012

"Police to rethink SWAT and blah, blah, blah...,

Geez, wouldn't that actually require police to "THINK" in the first place? Might be a lot easier said than done. I'm putting my money on them taking the easier way.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

HKcarrier · Jan 13, 2012

It's pretty apparent in many of these cases, cops just want an excuse to use all their cool toys... There is OBVIOUSLY better tactics that could be implemented as people have already mentioned. Stake out. Learn schedule. Pick up dude while he's away from house, execute warrant on unoccupied/unprotected home. Easy peasy nice and no shooty shooty... but then it's harder to justify the SWAT team when you don't use it frequently.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 13, 2012

HKcarrier said:
It's pretty apparent in many of these cases, cops just want an excuse to use all their cool toys... There is OBVIOUSLY better tactics that could be implemented as people have already mentioned. Stake out. Learn schedule. Pick up dude while he's away from house, execute warrant on unoccupied/unprotected home. Easy peasy nice and no shooty shooty... but then it's harder to justify the SWAT team when you don't use it frequently.

You mean like this recent incident, one Bank robber hiding in apt. complex, two LE departments, with Bradley's helicopters and armed police who didn't know how to operate an AR? Seems to me they put more innocent bystanders in harms way than what was justified.

Gunslinger · Jan 13, 2012

Grapeshot said:
A conclusion not supported by the evidence.

It is good that they are rethinking the procedure for whatever reason.

A conclusion not contradicted by the evidence, either. Therefore: an opinion. And an opinion supported by the 'fact' that the article only concerned cops getting killed. Not one word of concern over the innocent civilians gunned down by the ** **** squads.

sidestreet · Jan 13, 2012

Obviously...,

sudden valley gunner said:
You mean like this recent incident, one Bank robber hiding in apt. complex, two LE departments, with Bradley's helicopters and armed police who didn't know how to operate an AR? Seems to me they put more innocent bystanders in harms way than what was justified.

just one of those "highly trained" officers that the sheeple are so willing to wait and depend on to rescue them, and keep them safe. He probably doesn't know of anyone else there qualified enough to handle that particular type of firearm.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

OC for ME · Jan 13, 2012

The recent surge in fatal police shootings is weighing heavily on law enforcement trainers, some of whom are calling for a reassessment of high-risk fugitive and drug raids that have resulted in a number of deadly ambushes.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-06/police-deaths-training-raids/52488196/1

Note the bolded text. Somehow I think a SWAT raid where cops get shot are not 'ambushes' but a an assault that goes bad.

"You can have all of the equipment in the world, but if somebody wants to kill you, they will if you give them the opportunity," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-06/police-deaths-training-raids/52488196/1

Stop the vast majority of these assaults and these opportunities will likewise stop.

Geez...ya'd think the cops thought that they were the ones being assaulted.

TechnoWeenie · Jan 15, 2012

I've always maintained that the more people resist with violence, the more they'll think about risking their life on bad intelligence and BS. Same goes for unlawful arrest... If officers knew they could get their asses kicked if they arrested someone unlawfully, they'd stop the whole 'you'll beat the rap, but not the ride' BS.

I know if I have a 50-50 chance of dying on a raid, I'm gonna make DAMN sure EVERYTHING is as perfect as can be, and that means finding out when the suspect will be AWAY from the house, so he can be taken into custody on a traffic stop or controlled circumstance.

Kicking in a door and risking getting shot is not a smart thing to do.

I purchased a 7.62x39 pistol for such home invasion occasions. It'll go through all but the best body armor, including those that are stolen from police cars. Criminals come in all shapes and sizes, wearing all sorts of clothing and gear.

SFCRetired · Jan 15, 2012

[snip=TechnoWeenie;1683796]
I purchased a 7.62x39 pistol for such home invasion occasions. It'll go through all but the best body armor, including those that are stolen from police cars. Criminals come in all shapes and sizes, wearing all sorts of clothing and gear.[/snip]

Maybe just me, but I would not have said that on an open forum. IANAL, but that could come back to bite you right square in the seat of your pants.

When the police departments finally wise up about SWAT and quit using them indiscriminately, they also need to rethink the militarization of their departments. That, IMNSHO, is the root of the entire problem. When you stop thinking of the public as fellow citizens and think of them as the "enemy", you have more and more of these problems.

I have begun refusing to address police officers by other than "Mr." or "Ms". Most of the ones I see wearing the stripes of Corporal through Staff Sergeant wouldn't make a pimple on a good Army PFC's rear end. Neither will I call them "Sir" or "Ma'am" as those are terms I use in addressing commissioned officers of the military.

Daylen · Jan 15, 2012

Grapeshot said:
A conclusion not supported by the evidence.

It is good that they are rethinking the procedure for whatever reason.

The evidence is in the link. The only concern mentioned in the link was cops dying or being injured. I do agree that it is good the procedure is being rethought.

Motofixxer · Jan 15, 2012

I recommend everyone get something like these, and\or the Linebacker.

The door problem

EZ Armor Door Jamb Armor

Or a similar model

The linebacker door bar
[video=youtube;zO_gIN-8-9U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO_gIN-8-9U&feature=related[/video]

hermannr · Jan 15, 2012

Brion said:
1st, if you have drugs in the house, I have no sympathy if you get your door kicked in, your teeth kicked in, or you dog getting blasted.:banghead:
2nd, if you do not have drugs in the house and you get your door kicked in, your teeth kicked in, or your dog get's blasted, then I 100% support you going and getting every single penny you can from the Taxpayer. :banana:
Make sure you scream this fact as loud as you can from the tallest building you can, on every radio station you can, and every TV station you can, 'till the "professional" Law Enforcement Agencies start to perform like the professionals they are suppost to be by having all of their :cuss: in one sock before they execute.

Gig'em!

You have no idea what the "process of law" is all about, do you...so wonderfully self-righteous...until it happens to you. Wake up, if it can happen to anyone, it can happen to you too.

There are protection guarantees in the constitution for a reason...one of the old founding fathers said something along this line... "it is better for 10 guilty to go free than for one innocent man to hang."

that is the reason we have the 4th ammendment and every state has similar. To PROTECT the innocent. Don't be so damn self righteous, it will come back and burn you. First, there is no reason for a stupid war on drugs, just like there was no reason for prohibition, and both have created excatly the same problems..excess use of force by the police, and a lot of petty crooks have become extremely wealthy..men (and women) have died, that should not have died, we have a gang problem funded by drug money, and the people are losing respect for the law because it is not followed by the law enForcers.

I bet you never thought of it, but guess what..if MJ was legal, the gang money would go away...just like it did with prohibition. No money, no reason for the gang.

DangerClose · Jan 16, 2012

hermannr said:
I bet you never thought of it, but guess what..if MJ was legal, the gang money would go away...just like it did with prohibition. No money, no reason for the gang.

Hey, stop making sense. There's no place for that when talking about drug policy in the United States.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for that episode of Steven Seagal's cop show when they used the city's tank when going to arrest a guy at his house. I probably would have just waited for him to walk outside and get the paper....

sudden valley gunner · Jan 16, 2012

hermannr said:
You have no idea what the "process of law" is all about, do you...so wonderfully self-righteous...until it happens to you. Wake up, if it can happen to anyone, it can happen to you too.

There are protection guarantees in the constitution for a reason...one of the old founding fathers said something along this line... "it is better for 10 guilty to go free than for one innocent man to hang."

that is the reason we have the 4th ammendment and every state has similar. To PROTECT the innocent. Don't be so damn self righteous, it will come back and burn you. First, there is no reason for a stupid war on drugs, just like there was no reason for prohibition, and both have created excatly the same problems..excess use of force by the police, and a lot of petty crooks have become extremely wealthy..men (and women) have died, that should not have died, we have a gang problem funded by drug money, and the people are losing respect for the law because it is not followed by the law enForcers.

I bet you never thought of it, but guess what..if MJ was legal, the gang money would go away...just like it did with prohibition. No money, no reason for the gang.

Good post, Id like to insert one thing though, the fourth was inserted to protect innocent and those deemed guilty of crimes from the government. Our founders smuggled a lot and it was a smuggling case that sparked the revolution and a reason why the fourth was enumerated. In many statist minds today they were criminals.

Police to rethink SWAT and/or military style raids?

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