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Thread: Open/CCW Carry @ Gun Show= NOT !

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    Open/CCW Carry @ Gun Show= NOT !

    Re: ccw @ event‏
    1:32 PM Reply ▼Reply
    DiPretedipromo@comcast.net

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    Find email Add to contactsTo scottFrom: Pat DiPrete (dipromo@comcast.net)
    Sent: Wed 1/11/12 1:32 PM
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    No you cannot. Our insurance requires all firearms must be unloaded.

    Pat
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: scott To: dipromo@comcast.net
    Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 3:00 AM
    Subject: ccw @ event


    Is it acceptable to conceal carry at this event ?

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    No it isn't. If you do a search for gun show rules you will see that all guns have to be unloaded with no exceptions to having a CCW license or type of carry. Every time I have gone and brought an empty mag they have put a sticker on the bottom to show it is unloaded. Also I'm pretty sure that they can't sell you ammo for any gun you're actively carrying (but if you take it to your car it's fine) as you could then load your gun with said ammo.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Yep, the unloaded mandate is pretty standard. I have bought ammunition for my carried gun here in VA at a couple different shows. I was reading a thread somewhere on here where you couldn't have guns at all at the gun show...
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Promoters always claim their insurance requires all guns to be unloaded. So do venue owners, now and then.

    Never once, to my knowledge, has any of them ever produced an insurance policy that actually says so.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Yep, the unloaded mandate is pretty standard. I have bought ammunition for my carried gun here in VA at a couple different shows. I was reading a thread somewhere on here where you couldn't have guns at all at the gun show...
    Every gun show I have ever attended, and that's a lot, posts a sign that says to the affect that no loaded guns are allowed in the show. Makes one why this doesn't apply to the police officers I nearly always see at shows.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    We have no one to blame for that rule besides fellow gunowners who have caused/had NDs at gunshows.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Every gun show I have ever attended, and that's a lot, posts a sign that says to the affect that no loaded guns are allowed in the show. Makes one why this doesn't apply to the police officers I nearly always see at shows.
    I agree 100%. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my disdain for the rule along with it's LEO exception.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Campaign Veteran G22shooter's Avatar
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    Our local shows have people checking guns and bags at the door. All guns are zip tied through the action.

    They aren't checking pockets for loaded mags, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. O'Rourke; The Liberty Manifesto
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    We have no one to blame for that rule besides fellow gunowners who have caused/had NDs at gunshows.
    When I was talking with one person (either the LEO at the door or one of the vendors) they said that the vendors are the worst for the NDs. He also made it sound like vendors can still have loaded weapons at the show.

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/blgunshow.htm

    Here is the quick link to the gunshow rules and which fed law it appears to come from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Promoters always claim their insurance requires all guns to be unloaded. So do venue owners, now and then.

    Never once, to my knowledge, has any of them ever produced an insurance policy that actually says so.

    In my place of business, if you didn't like one of my policies that was due to insurance restrictions, and if you demanded to see my insurance policy to somehow "prove" something to you... I would invite you to find a short pier and take a long walk.

    Just saying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Every gun show I have ever attended, and that's a lot, posts a sign that says to the affect that no loaded guns are allowed in the show. Makes one why this doesn't apply to the police officers I nearly always see at shows.
    It does to some of them. Just not the ones hired as security; at least for the shows I've attended.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    In my state a gun show has no more authority to ban carry than any other private establishment. So although they might not like concealed carry, they don't have to know about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    In my place of business, if you didn't like one of my policies that was due to insurance restrictions, and if you demanded to see my insurance policy to somehow "prove" something to you... I would invite you to find a short pier and take a long walk.

    Just saying...
    I challenged a large gun show promoter (Michigan) about the insurance excuse, after some back and forth he finally said it wasn't the insurance they just didn't want people to carry.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Many businesses use 'my insurance doesn't allow it' phrase. Having been in the insurance industry; I can tell you of the policies I'm familar with; none have that clause or exclusion; however I have not seen every commercial policy, but many are the same. It's generally used to eliminate any conversations and restrict people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G22shooter View Post
    Our local shows have people checking guns and bags at the door. All guns are zip tied through the action.

    They aren't checking pockets for loaded mags, though.
    I have ha mine zip tied and a loaded mag on my hip and it didn't seem to be a problem when I was at chantilly. Just had the mag out before I got to the gate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    When I was talking with one person (either the LEO at the door or one of the vendors) they said that the vendors are the worst for the NDs. He also made it sound like vendors can still have loaded weapons at the show.

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/blgunshow.htm

    Here is the quick link to the gunshow rules and which fed law it appears to come from.
    Your quoted source is confusing and misleading. My imperession is that it was intended to be so (the source, not you).

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    Quote Originally Posted by G22shooter View Post
    Our local shows have people checking guns and bags at the door. All guns are zip tied through the action.

    They aren't checking pockets for loaded mags, though.

    Given that I've never been to a gun show (not yet at least), I never even thought of this issue. So, do they provide a method for you to then remove the zip tie on the way out? Or do you have to carry something to do that for yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    Given that I've never been to a gun show (not yet at least), I never even thought of this issue. So, do they provide a method for you to then remove the zip tie on the way out? Or do you have to carry something to do that for yourself?
    At the gun shows here the police do have wire cutters at their station. I've had them snip off vendor zip ties when I've been carrying around a gun I'm looking to sell (vendor zip ties are white compared to the yellow ones the police use, as such people typically think white tied guns aren't for sale/trade) so you could always ask them to remove the tie while leaving. Personally I almost always have a knife handy so I haven't needed them to remove it for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    At the gun shows here the police do have wire cutters at their station. I've had them snip off vendor zip ties when I've been carrying around a gun I'm looking to sell (vendor zip ties are white compared to the yellow ones the police use, as such people typically think white tied guns aren't for sale/trade) so you could always ask them to remove the tie while leaving. Personally I almost always have a knife handy so I haven't needed them to remove it for me.

    Huh. All interesting as I've never given it a thought what rules might be there.

    Interesting though: http://usgovinfo.about.com/blgunshow.htm

    And from that:
    1.All guns must be unloaded, tied and the magazines removed.
    THIS INCLUDES FIREARMS OF CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDERS.
    2.All ammo must be in sealed containers.
    3.No loaded magazines allowed in the show.
    4.No cameras allowed in the show.
    5.Carts, dollys and baby strollers used to carry trade items cannot be brought into the show except by dealers.
    6.Police officers who are in uniform or who are displaying badges have free admission.
    7.All Federal, State and Local laws must be obeyed.
    So with regard to #4 and the no cameras -- what does that then say about all of our cell phones that have cameras? Or do they make an exception for those? I'm thinking about all the military bases and such with the no cameras rules that then prevent folks from having iPhones and such with built-in cameras.

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    They don't do anything about the cameras on phones. Though if you tried to take any pictures something might be done about that. Also I'm yet to have any issues on a military base simply because my phone has a camera built into it. The only places I've seen phones be an issue on base are "sensitive" areas like classified briefings, the vault, etc and then often times the issue with the phone is the actual audio features and not the built in camera.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    They don't do anything about the cameras on phones. Though if you tried to take any pictures something might be done about that. Also I'm yet to have any issues on a military base simply because my phone has a camera built into it. The only places I've seen phones be an issue on base are "sensitive" areas like classified briefings, the vault, etc and then often times the issue with the phone is the actual audio features and not the built in camera.
    Oh yeah, right -- I was thinking more about bases where there are few(er) places you can have a phone/camera, rather than just on the base itself. Most of the places that I go to, and then where on those bases, it has been more of an issue. And at those places folks have had to hang onto old camera-free phones. I have been to a place or two that outright prohibited any cell phone with a camera on the base though. And most if not all are now prohibit usage of phones unless hands-free. But out in your neck of the woods there were no issues at for example, Fort Sill.

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Every gun show I have ever attended, and that's a lot, posts a sign that says to the affect that no loaded guns are allowed in the show. Makes one why this doesn't apply to the police officers I nearly always see at shows.
    Hopefully, nobody will be arguing with their girlfriend at the time.

    If the gun show does not have a metal detector or claims they can pat you down, then ONLY law abiding gun-show attending firearm owners will be complying. I hope everyone realizes this. I saw one non-LEO manning a booth that had an un-tied firearm with a mag in it. (he's an instructor). I feel safer with him being armed than a LEO, (my opinion). I think there was one uniformed at this show (last year).

    As a matter of fact doing the whole 'we'll put a tag tie in your handgun' to assure it's unloaded trip is loaded with problems.

    1. If the guy at the table doing it hasn't handled your type of firearm, he typically sweeps you, his buddy, the whole floor, the LEO behind him, trying to keep the slide mechanism back on a KelTec while he inserts the tag tie. I'm not that strong and I could do it in under 3 seconds. In 45 seconds of farting around the gun owner finally took the tag from him and did it, sweeping nobody.

    2. If you get out to the car and drive around town and get home you find out your firearm is STILL tag tied, just how dumb do you feel? I mean buying stuff at the gunshow is exciting but it shouldn't make you forget you did something STUPID with your firearm (i.e. left that tag tie in). Isn't there a list of three S rules about that?

    3. When are you supposed to cut the tags off? In the lobby? OH RIGHT. I want a bunch of dweebs loading up and stuff in the lobby.

    4. What's the safest firearm? One that's loaded, cocked and locked and in a proper holster on your belt. I mean it's the simplest, lest 'fumbling around with' method.

    rant off

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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    Oh yeah, right -- I was thinking more about bases where there are few(er) places you can have a phone/camera, rather than just on the base itself. Most of the places that I go to, and then where on those bases, it has been more of an issue. And at those places folks have had to hang onto old camera-free phones. I have been to a place or two that outright prohibited any cell phone with a camera on the base though. And most if not all are now prohibit usage of phones unless hands-free. But out in your neck of the woods there were no issues at for example, Fort Sill.
    I'm curious what bases you're going to. Im actually at Tinker AFB atm but even out at Kadena and Osan phones weren't ever an issue unless you were entering into one of those sensitve areas.

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    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    I have been to gun shows in Cheyenne 3 times now with my loaded handgun and have had no issues.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

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    Red face Gun Shows = notoriously un-safe for gun owners

    Lawyers run the world, in gun shows and out of gun shows.

    Secondary subject: Gun shows are notorious gatherings for the sloppy un-safe handling of loaded fire arms !


    "What do You mean loaded Steve, your not allowed to have loaded weapon in a gun show" !

    Oh really > ALL weapons are to be 'considered' loaded , even after You checked it , the person receiving it is to confirm it for themselves, and so the next time You are at a gun show just stand there an watch the crowds of highly experienced gun dealers, smiths, buyers and gun collecting general public pass weapons around and not one will clear the weapon between hand-off's .

    BANG ( hole in the ceiling or worse ) The lazy un-safe reasoning will be something like this : SELLER> " well I checked it when I put out out on the table for display this morning along with the rest of them" , BUYER: "This is a gun show and he is a dealer why of course it is un-loaded "

    SURVEY SAYS > "B.S"

    Personally: I think of the thousand new and used weapons in a gun show as loaded, when I pick up each one I have an interest in, I clear it, even if Joe Dealer just cleared it in front of me.

    Even after I clear it I ask the owner: "May I pull the trigger" ( pointing it to the ceiling, away from any one ears ) if I am interested in the trigger pull, which half the time I am not .


    Digressing to the main topic: I don't like being treated like a boy having to un-load my weapon in a gun show, 'but' after watching the gun public at large in perhaps a hundred gun shows I would say if I were in charge of a gun show > "NO loaded weapons of any kind allowed in 'my' gun show" .

    One step up from 10 year old boys with A.D.D is the know it all 55 year old veteran gun enthusiast in a public venue.

    ( announcer voice ) We now return you back to Your regular topic

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