William Fisher
Regular Member
GOODNESS! I don't bother reading posts that are a tenth as long as some of those.
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Hope to generate some discussion with this post?
- Thread starter deniedmyrights
- Start date
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
Marx was right about the 'evolution of social systems'. Do I agree that any of the systems ever present in their 'pure' form, NO!
Back to Communism: I have stated previously that ownership by the citizen of Property is not actually Ownership, it is more of a holding; that the Federal Government owns all Property. There is a tinge of Communism in my assertion. Not that I agree it ought to be the case, just that it is.
The closest thing to Ownership of Property that an individual has is the reasonable monetary worth of the Property, and even that is contingent on the Governments allowing for compensation.
Back to Communism: I have stated previously that ownership by the citizen of Property is not actually Ownership, it is more of a holding; that the Federal Government owns all Property. There is a tinge of Communism in my assertion. Not that I agree it ought to be the case, just that it is.
The closest thing to Ownership of Property that an individual has is the reasonable monetary worth of the Property, and even that is contingent on the Governments allowing for compensation.
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georg jetson
Regular Member
You may be correct on the state of affairs as they are today. Considering that if property taxes are not paid, some enforcement body of a state will usually take possession of said property in an attempt to collect its tax and transfer the property to a new owner that WILL continue to pay taxes. I would say that currently all property belongs to the states. However, this is a good example of what needs to be corrected. There should be NO property tax in a free republic... but that is an issue that requires resolution at the state level.
I believe there are states that have no constitutional authority to levy a property tax. Those states would defy your argument.
Again, I'm assuming that you are commenting on the state of affairs as they are today and not how our republic is supposed to operate. You are unfortunately correct in the states where property tax is constitutionally granted...
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Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
(1) The States might have the authority to levy a tax but, the Federal Government also can levy tax that would meet the same ends, which is to removed you from your so-called 'ownership of the property'.
(2) I get that the premise of a Republic is that individuals can own property. The introduction of a body that backs the premise that individuals can own property, well, the body is asserting its Authority. The body is stating in effect that what is going on here is that individuals are allowed to own property.
I know, this is where we break off. I agree with the premise, I think it is a beneficial premise, that is, if the system actually works from the premise. Two questions arise: Can it?; and Will it?
Really, I think this boils down to Will to Power. The questions are: Does the Will to Power of the individual exceed that of the whole, and can it effect change alone?; Does the Will to Power of the whole exceed the Will to Power of the Government? Will the Government submit to the Will to Power of either the individual, or the whole?
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georg jetson
Regular Member
Agreed
No. The "body" is not introduced with a "premise that individuals can own property". It is introduced BECAUSE the property ownership already exists and the protection of ownership is necessary. The "body" is allowed to exist to the ends that it performs said task.
That is the battle... and our Republic has been given the rules...
“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
“A Republic, if you can keep it.”
http://www.bartleby.com/73/1593.html
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Well, he certainly generated some discussion.
Gunslinger
Regular Member
But I'm getting a headache trying to find out what Admiralty Law has to go with anything.
Superlite27
Regular Member
So did Tolstoy.
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deniedmyrights
Regular Member
In this world, those who seek the truth will also find trouble.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. --Arthur Schopenhauer
He that never changes his opinions, never corrects his mistakes, will never be wiser on the morrow than he is today. --Tryon Edwards
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
Think of an aspect of your life that dictates the limits of your freedoms. Government and law enforcement. Insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Taxes, building permits and drivers licenses and more. There are hundreds if not thousands of stipulations, regulations and boundaries on our freedoms. Out of the ones just mentioned how many have you researched to find out if they apply to you or not?
Let’s look at the forms of law we currently acquiesce to. A common misconception among people is that any rule or regulation that governs them falls under one category, LAW. But there are many other forms of law that people abide by without realizing that they simply do not apply to them. Another misconception is that a nation’s constitution gives us our rights. A constitution does nothing more than list the rights we already have. We are born with inalienable rights endowed to us by our Creator. They are not given to us and they cannot be given away. The most a person can do with a right is to choose to exercise it or not.
Maritime Admiralty law is what’s known as the law of the water. It is superseded by civil law and only applies to those who willingly contract themselves into it. The definition of Admiralty Law is: Admiralty law is a body of private international law governing the relationships between private entities which operate vessels on the oceans.
Let’s look at how and why a form of law that is fashioned to govern corporations, businesses and vessels has imposed its rule over natural human beings. This all done through a form of word magic. A simple perversion of language has made it possible to convince people around the world that these alternative laws apply to them. One of the predominant beliefs in modern culture is that licenses, permits, registrations and other forms of documentation are required to operate motor vehicles, use public roads, build structures and establishments, engage in free enterprise and much more. Sadly these beliefs are based on little to no investigation whatsoever and are false.
This belief structure is perpetuated by maritime admiralty law. This form of law was originally created to govern ships docking in foreign nations for the import or export of products and resources. It deals with banking and merchant affairs not civil affairs. When a product is taken off of a ship and brought into a foreign land, that nation takes custody of the resource and accounts for it with a certificate. That certificate marks the birth date of that product in the custody of the respective nation. Think of why it is supposedly required to have a certificate of live birth in the first place. The Barron’s Dictionary of banking terms defines Certificate: Paper establishing ownership claim. So right there we notice that everyone with a birth certificate is defined as being owned. OWNED BY WHOM?
People are used as collateral with other nations because the U.S. is bankrupt. The United States declared bankruptcy on March 9, 1933. At this point the U.S. began taking out loans from a private non-government affiliated corporation called the Federal Reserve. With no money to pay back the loans, the United States began using the citizens as collateral. All birth and marriage certificates are literally warehouse receipts. Just look at the similarities of warehouse receipts and birth certificates. Both document the date of issue, a serial number, registration number or receipt number, a description of the product and an authorized informant to notify the appropriate government agency.
With all this information being readily available, the majority of people are unaware of their involvement with maritime admiralty law. This is possible through the manipulation of language. This admiralty law changed the meaning of the word person from a natural living person to a corporation.
Drivers licenses, vehicle registrations, auto insurance forms, building permits, gun permits, work permits, tax filing documents, birth and death certificates, traffic citations and many other forms of documentations that were once believed to be absolutely necessary, only apply to persons or corporations. Upon signing such a legal document you are indirectly waiving your rights under the constitution and lowering your status to that of a corporation that is created with the exact same name as you.
The only way to reconcile your true name from the name of the corporation is to take notice that the corporation has its name in all capital letters. This is known as Capitis Diminutio Maxima. You may take notice the your driver’s license, birth certificate, social security card, insurance cards and more use all capital letters to legally represent the corporation with your name, not you. The corporation is known as the artificial person whereas you the human being are known as a natural person.
This deception goes even deeper when it comes to the courts we attend. When showing up to court you will notice that there are seats for witnesses behind a wooden fence or barrier. The defendant must cross through the entrance to the other side of the barrier where the plaintiff and judge sit. This act symbolizes the boarding of a ship. At this time business can be conducted in maritime admiralty law. The judge acting as captain or banker is responsible for settling the balance between the two sides. This is why there is always a monetary value involved in any court case. The captain is simply dealing with banking and merchant disputes. Once the balance is paid the case is closed. To turn the court case away from admiralty law where your rights are not protected, you must avoid agreeing to represent the artificial person. This is done by stating that you are the natural person. You don’t have a first or last name because those imply corporate title. In a court case you may state that the court takes judicial notice of your honors oath of office. Every judge must take an oath of office to practice law. I do solemnly swear that I will administer justice without respect to persons and do equal right to the poor and to the rich. And that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me under the constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God. Yet you must make it clear to the court and the jury that the judge is acting as judge and not banker.
Remember that you are a natural human being of the earth, you are not governed by anything but you’re on consciousness. Laws are created within a society. The society that created the laws we see being enforced today is called the law society. Yet the most beautiful part of this entire deception is the fact that we are not part of the law society so their laws do not apply to us.
Judges, lawyers and law enforcement officers, they’re all part of the society. Within that society they have created their own language deceptively similar to English. They have these little thing called statutes, acts and regulations that seem like laws but they really only apply to those within their society. That basically means that all the traffic citations and minimum age requirements and everything accept damage to another person or their property does not apply to the natural person. Laws only apply to those within the law society. The game being played is only an illusion. You can simply choose to open your eyes and claim the freedom you were born with bound by nothing but the limits of your imagination.
These are just a few examples of assuring that your rights are being protected. By far the most important line of defense against this deception is to be aware of the perversion of language. And be absolutely aware of how you form your beliefs and concepts.
In religion and politics, people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the question at issue, but have taken them at second hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing. Mark Twain
In all forms of the perversion of language, there is a mirror reflection of this in the microcosm of the psyche. The problem with humanity today is we do not truly know ourselves anymore. We have the 9 to 5 job, we have the house, the children, the bills, the television, hobbies and the errand’s we run every single day and we eventually begin to believe this is who we are. But who are we beneath the job title,. Beneath the status of mother or father, theist or atheist, republican or democrat, black or white, man or woman, who are we? Who are we deep down inside? We do not know because every time we hear an answer we don’t want to accept about ourselves, we deny it. We’ll pass it off and project it on somebody else and judge them for it. This is repression and we see what repression can do to us on an individual level but what about a collective level of humanity. What happens when the whole world refuses to see what they truly are on the inside?
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. --Arthur Schopenhauer
He that never changes his opinions, never corrects his mistakes, will never be wiser on the morrow than he is today. --Tryon Edwards
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
Think of an aspect of your life that dictates the limits of your freedoms. Government and law enforcement. Insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Taxes, building permits and drivers licenses and more. There are hundreds if not thousands of stipulations, regulations and boundaries on our freedoms. Out of the ones just mentioned how many have you researched to find out if they apply to you or not?
Let’s look at the forms of law we currently acquiesce to. A common misconception among people is that any rule or regulation that governs them falls under one category, LAW. But there are many other forms of law that people abide by without realizing that they simply do not apply to them. Another misconception is that a nation’s constitution gives us our rights. A constitution does nothing more than list the rights we already have. We are born with inalienable rights endowed to us by our Creator. They are not given to us and they cannot be given away. The most a person can do with a right is to choose to exercise it or not.
Maritime Admiralty law is what’s known as the law of the water. It is superseded by civil law and only applies to those who willingly contract themselves into it. The definition of Admiralty Law is: Admiralty law is a body of private international law governing the relationships between private entities which operate vessels on the oceans.
Let’s look at how and why a form of law that is fashioned to govern corporations, businesses and vessels has imposed its rule over natural human beings. This all done through a form of word magic. A simple perversion of language has made it possible to convince people around the world that these alternative laws apply to them. One of the predominant beliefs in modern culture is that licenses, permits, registrations and other forms of documentation are required to operate motor vehicles, use public roads, build structures and establishments, engage in free enterprise and much more. Sadly these beliefs are based on little to no investigation whatsoever and are false.
This belief structure is perpetuated by maritime admiralty law. This form of law was originally created to govern ships docking in foreign nations for the import or export of products and resources. It deals with banking and merchant affairs not civil affairs. When a product is taken off of a ship and brought into a foreign land, that nation takes custody of the resource and accounts for it with a certificate. That certificate marks the birth date of that product in the custody of the respective nation. Think of why it is supposedly required to have a certificate of live birth in the first place. The Barron’s Dictionary of banking terms defines Certificate: Paper establishing ownership claim. So right there we notice that everyone with a birth certificate is defined as being owned. OWNED BY WHOM?
People are used as collateral with other nations because the U.S. is bankrupt. The United States declared bankruptcy on March 9, 1933. At this point the U.S. began taking out loans from a private non-government affiliated corporation called the Federal Reserve. With no money to pay back the loans, the United States began using the citizens as collateral. All birth and marriage certificates are literally warehouse receipts. Just look at the similarities of warehouse receipts and birth certificates. Both document the date of issue, a serial number, registration number or receipt number, a description of the product and an authorized informant to notify the appropriate government agency.
With all this information being readily available, the majority of people are unaware of their involvement with maritime admiralty law. This is possible through the manipulation of language. This admiralty law changed the meaning of the word person from a natural living person to a corporation.
Drivers licenses, vehicle registrations, auto insurance forms, building permits, gun permits, work permits, tax filing documents, birth and death certificates, traffic citations and many other forms of documentations that were once believed to be absolutely necessary, only apply to persons or corporations. Upon signing such a legal document you are indirectly waiving your rights under the constitution and lowering your status to that of a corporation that is created with the exact same name as you.
The only way to reconcile your true name from the name of the corporation is to take notice that the corporation has its name in all capital letters. This is known as Capitis Diminutio Maxima. You may take notice the your driver’s license, birth certificate, social security card, insurance cards and more use all capital letters to legally represent the corporation with your name, not you. The corporation is known as the artificial person whereas you the human being are known as a natural person.
This deception goes even deeper when it comes to the courts we attend. When showing up to court you will notice that there are seats for witnesses behind a wooden fence or barrier. The defendant must cross through the entrance to the other side of the barrier where the plaintiff and judge sit. This act symbolizes the boarding of a ship. At this time business can be conducted in maritime admiralty law. The judge acting as captain or banker is responsible for settling the balance between the two sides. This is why there is always a monetary value involved in any court case. The captain is simply dealing with banking and merchant disputes. Once the balance is paid the case is closed. To turn the court case away from admiralty law where your rights are not protected, you must avoid agreeing to represent the artificial person. This is done by stating that you are the natural person. You don’t have a first or last name because those imply corporate title. In a court case you may state that the court takes judicial notice of your honors oath of office. Every judge must take an oath of office to practice law. I do solemnly swear that I will administer justice without respect to persons and do equal right to the poor and to the rich. And that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me under the constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God. Yet you must make it clear to the court and the jury that the judge is acting as judge and not banker.
Remember that you are a natural human being of the earth, you are not governed by anything but you’re on consciousness. Laws are created within a society. The society that created the laws we see being enforced today is called the law society. Yet the most beautiful part of this entire deception is the fact that we are not part of the law society so their laws do not apply to us.
Judges, lawyers and law enforcement officers, they’re all part of the society. Within that society they have created their own language deceptively similar to English. They have these little thing called statutes, acts and regulations that seem like laws but they really only apply to those within their society. That basically means that all the traffic citations and minimum age requirements and everything accept damage to another person or their property does not apply to the natural person. Laws only apply to those within the law society. The game being played is only an illusion. You can simply choose to open your eyes and claim the freedom you were born with bound by nothing but the limits of your imagination.
These are just a few examples of assuring that your rights are being protected. By far the most important line of defense against this deception is to be aware of the perversion of language. And be absolutely aware of how you form your beliefs and concepts.
In religion and politics, people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the question at issue, but have taken them at second hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing. Mark Twain
In all forms of the perversion of language, there is a mirror reflection of this in the microcosm of the psyche. The problem with humanity today is we do not truly know ourselves anymore. We have the 9 to 5 job, we have the house, the children, the bills, the television, hobbies and the errand’s we run every single day and we eventually begin to believe this is who we are. But who are we beneath the job title,. Beneath the status of mother or father, theist or atheist, republican or democrat, black or white, man or woman, who are we? Who are we deep down inside? We do not know because every time we hear an answer we don’t want to accept about ourselves, we deny it. We’ll pass it off and project it on somebody else and judge them for it. This is repression and we see what repression can do to us on an individual level but what about a collective level of humanity. What happens when the whole world refuses to see what they truly are on the inside?
ManInBlack
Regular Member
. . .
More copy/paste?
More copy/paste?
deniedmyrights
Regular Member
georg jetson
Regular Member
Really... what part...
http://www.kirwanesque.com/politics/articles/2010/art54.htm
What is the point of you posting this fiction?
Edit - here's more of the source he is plagiarizing.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/671360/message/1293772766/KYMATICA+Part+4
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Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
Either way, IMO, if you wish to state that it was necessary to make a body, you are making the body based on the premise of ownership of property. Now what, the body is supposed to assure that? So, we have moved from the individual assuring their ownership of property, to the body assuring it. And somehow the individual has maintained through all of this an ownership of property without contingencies?
I don't need to remind you that these are again, matters of ought, and is. I will state that the ought will always be a nice little theory that is not reflected much in the is.
Then it is a perpetual battle. I will tell you that I do not believe, and I have history to back me on this, that the ought, and the is will never be the same.
Republic theory is at its core nothing more that an exercise Utopianism. I am a firm believer in Practicality, and calling this so-called Republic what it is, and this misplaced notion of "owned property," a waste of time because in application it does not work.
georg jetson
Regular Member
No. The individual has recourse to protect their own property via a non-violent solution. The body facilitates the individual's ability to enforce. Giving a "body" power as an enforcement tool does NOT transfer property ownership in ANY circumstance. What transfers property ownership is taxation by the "body" which can be enforced by real estate lien or forced sale.
What is practical is that the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. All of these things you point out have been known for centuries. In application it DOES work.
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rodbender
Regular Member
I find it hard to believe that I agree with a complete post of yours.
The main reason that I consider that government owns all property is the 16th amendment. Don't pay your income tax and they will sell your underwear to collect it. This is one reason that the framers cited that there would be no direct tax in the Constitution. The States allowed this to go away with ratification of 16A.