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Thread: HB 859: Criminal history record information check for transfer of certain firearms.

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    HB 859: Criminal history record information check for transfer of certain firearms.

    HB 859: Criminal history record information check for transfer of certain firearms.

    Criminal history record information check for transfer of certain firearms; exemption for concealed handgun permittees. Provides an exemption from the required criminal history record information check upon firearms transfers in the Commonwealth for persons holding a valid Virginia-issued concealed handgun permit.

    Does just what the summary says.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Sure does TFred.
    None of that Hocus Pocus in HB 237.

    This is worth supporting!
    Last edited by peter nap; 01-11-2012 at 11:22 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Sure does TFred.
    None of that Hocus Pocus in HB 237.

    This is worth supporting!
    I'da lost the bet... I'da bet you'd complain P4P!

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I'da lost the bet... I'da bet you'd complain P4P!

    TFred
    It is P4P TFred, but it's honest P4p and a step in the right direction. That direction is doing away with background checks. Not introducing more big government in our business.

    None of this giving additional information to the USAG in order to eliminate the state Check on handguns, or the implications about gunshows which really PO's me and I think I've stirred that pot enough to make the right people thing about it.

    It was also introduced by Todd Gilbert, whom I've supported 100% even though he does lean toward permittees. Remember, he's the one that stood up for permit holders being able to carry in the GA building. He also stood his ground for non permit holders that carried outside on the grounds.

    I was in his office today and even though I don't always like what he says, I know that what he's saying the whole story.

    AND...yes, I knew this bill was coming.

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    Regular Member coondog22554's Avatar
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    I sent Mr. Todd Gilbert an email thanking him for this legislation.

    Each and every time I purchase a firearm from a dealer my application is delayed. The average wait time for an approval in my case is three hours. (Not counting Dec 22nd when I waited four days for an approval).

    Either recognize the background check done by the VA State Police before issuing a CHP or scrap the program and authorize constitutional carry.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coondog22554 View Post
    I sent Mr. Todd Gilbert an email thanking him for this legislation.

    Each and every time I purchase a firearm from a dealer my application is delayed. The average wait time for an approval in my case is three hours. (Not counting Dec 22nd when I waited four days for an approval).

    Either recognize the background check done by the VA State Police before issuing a CHP or scrap the program and authorize constitutional carry.
    Well, I expect I'll be explaining my support for that bill for years....If I don't get tarred and feathered first.

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    For the new folks or the old ones with bad memories

    This is Gilbert last year when a ban on all weapons in the building came to his Committee.
    Listen to the words carefully. The bill died right then and there.


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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    This will not accomplish anything

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Sure does TFred.
    None of that Hocus Pocus in HB 237.

    This is worth supporting!
    This will not accomplish anything. I wish things were different but you won't be able to use your P4P card to avoid the Virginia checks and their fees.

    Even though the law already has exceptions to Virginia's Background Check requirement (curio and relic license holders, curio and relic firearms and police officers) the FBI refuses to let Virginia FFLs use the federal system. So the only way a Virginia FFL can get a NICS check is by using the Virginia State Police.

    If you think I am wrong, try buying an M-1 Garand (a C&R rifle) from a dealer in Virginia without doing the VA paperwork and paying the $2 fee. It isn't going to happen.

    I am two years into a fight with the FBI and VA State Police over this with no end in sight. Feds blame the state and the state blames the FBI. When the FBI is pushed, they default to the BATFE, who are no help whatsoever.

    Sorry to burst the bubble,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member coondog22554's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but the purpose of this bill is to eliminate the State Police and NICS entirely. The fact that you have a valid CHP is proof that the VA State Police has performed a NICS background check. Other states do it, why can't Virginia?
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    Quote Originally Posted by coondog22554 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the purpose of this bill is to eliminate the State Police and NICS entirely. The fact that you have a valid CHP is proof that the VA State Police has performed a NICS background check. Other states do it, why can't Virginia?
    Simple reason is the Va State police do not issue the CHP. To get a CHP in VA you must only meet state requirements not Federal. So you can actually have a CHP in VA and not be able to purchase or possess a firearm under Federal law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coondog22554 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the purpose of this bill is to eliminate the State Police and NICS entirely. The fact that you have a valid CHP is proof that the VA State Police has performed a NICS background check. Other states do it, why can't Virginia?
    All the bill does is exempt CHP holders from VICS - they would still have to go thru NICS.
    Last edited by Mike; 01-15-2012 at 12:34 AM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    OK, so I was reading the text of this bill and saw (bold added):
    A. Any person purchasing from a dealer a firearm as herein defined shall consent in writing, on a form to be provided by the Department of State Police, to have the dealer obtain criminal history record information. Such form shall include only the written consent; the name, birth date, gender, race, citizenship, and social security number and/or any other identification number
    Currently SSN is optional. I didn't see anything in this text that would support that. Definitely something that would need to be fixed if true.

    Oh, and regarding an earlier statement, I have purchased a number of C&R handguns and rifles in person, in state, and have never filled out any paperwork on them, just handed over a copy of my 03FFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    OK, so I was reading the text of this bill and saw (bold added):


    Currently SSN is optional. I didn't see anything in this text that would support that. Definitely something that would need to be fixed if true.
    The SSN language is already in current state law - however Section 7 of the Federal Privacy Act trumps state law. See, e.g., Greidinger v Davis; Stollenwerk v. Miller; Section 7(b) warning on BATFE Form 4473.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    OK, so I was reading the text of this bill and saw (bold added):


    Currently SSN is optional. I didn't see anything in this text that would support that. Definitely something that would need to be fixed if true.

    Oh, and regarding an earlier statement, I have purchased a number of C&R handguns and rifles in person, in state, and have never filled out any paperwork on them, just handed over a copy of my 03FFL.
    The SSN wording isn't really an issue because as Mike pointed out, it's already there. I suspect a lot of Dealers will refuse to sell without it though.

    The meat of this bill is that it carries P4P across the board, not just long guns and that it doesn't open a pipeline into the Federal Database of everyones information like simular bills.

    This bill has NO effect on me so I consider it the best of the bad and if everyone is so anxious to jump on the bandwagon, at least this one doesn't just open the door for the Brady Bill to take over.
    There is no way to opt out of the Federal Check. Even if the state mandated it be eliminated, the Feds would just pull the license of every dealer who refuses to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    the meat of this bill is that it carries p4p across the board
    p4p = ??

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    p4p = ??
    Perks for permits
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    p4p = ??
    P4P=Perks for permits.
    Perks For Permits=the selling of Virginia's soul

    Last edited by peter nap; 01-22-2012 at 05:34 PM.

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