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Thread: How to respond to a LEO while OC'ing/Regustration question.

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    How to respond to a LEO while OC'ing/Regustration question.

    Just cruising the forums and seen a couple situations where a citizen has approached someone OC'ing and the response to that would be easy, calmly say my peace, show my knowledge of KY Statutes in a calm manor and end the conversation (of course unless the person truly wants to learn more, and I'm pretty new to this myself.) But I just wanted to see if there was anyone in Louisville, or for that matter anywhere in KY that has been approached in public or pulled over by a LEO and what is the best way to respond is. My big thing is hoping not to run into an uneducated LEO (seeing as that I am 20 years old, and everyone gets hung up on thinking that you can't possibly own a gun or for that matter carry openly until you are 21.)

    Also one last question, my firearm was purchased privately, the gun is registered to the original owner but I do plan to transfer registration on it when I turn 21. If I were pulled over and the officer asks to see my firearm, it is illegal for the LEO to detain me or to confiscate my firearm correct? That's my it worry of OC is the procedure of if the officer runs the firearm's serial to check to see if it is lost or stolen, and seeing that it isn't registered to me. I just don't want the officer to get hung up on that.



    ......and GO!

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I can't speak to KY law, I have no answers, just interested in this really good question.....but, do you have a signed (by the former owner) receipt as proof of the purchase transaction? Do you carry that around with you? Is there a 'drop-dead' date to re-register the firearm?
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    Regular Member Manzanita's Avatar
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    How do you plan on registering it?

    If you bought the gun in Kentucky from a Kentucky resident then the gun is not "registered" anywhere. Kentucky does not have gun registration of any type.

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    To my understanding the firearm was purchased from a FFL and that it was registered at that time? I had planned on transferring it in my name at an FFL when I turn 21. The same way you would when purchasing from an online site or online catalog (CDNN, buds guns shop online, etc.) and yes I have a signed document saying that on date XX this firearm XXXXXX was sold to me. But from what I'm reading I don't really even have to have that correct?

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    Adding to my post, to my understanding there doesn't legally have to be any paperwork for the private sale of a firearm...

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    The gun isn't registered, it was PURCHASED.

    And no, because you cannot "register" a gun in kentucky paper work only has a few, limited applications.

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    There is no registration in Ky, you are confusing the ncis background check conducted when someone purchases a firearm from an FFL, with some form of registration. When a firearm is purchased, they call and have an instant background check done on the purchaser, they then write a confirmation code, and serial number of all firearms purchased on your ATF form 4473, and then lock it away for the next 20 years. Once the original buyer sales the firearm, they have no way of tracking the firearm, which is why they want todo away with private transfers, which are 100% legal in Ky. As long as the firearm has not been reported stolen, you are fine. Read up on krs chapters 237 & 527, these are the chapters that pertain to firearms.

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    Back to dealing with LEO's

    I read KRS 237.104, just wondering, it states the verbiage "during an emergency" or "disaster" does that hold any weight. I know that if I am approach and not having done anything illegal all I really am obligated is identify myself to make sure that I am of age(over 18) and not a felon. Other than that unless I have committed a crime I don't have to "relinquish my firearm" or even consent to a search for that matter.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, I just want to be prepared for the worst and know how to answer any Leo's, especially uniformed LEO's.

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    ID info already thoroughly discussed Right Here


    And lots of detention related info Right Here as well as discussed in other threads.
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 01-16-2012 at 01:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    There is no registration in Ky, you are confusing the ncis background check conducted when someone purchases a firearm from an FFL, with some form of registration. When a firearm is purchased, they call and have an instant background check done on the purchaser, they then write a confirmation code, and serial number of all firearms purchased on your ATF form 4473, and then lock it away for the next 20 years. Once the original buyer sales the firearm, they have no way of tracking the firearm, which is why they want todo away with private transfers, which are 100% legal in Ky. As long as the firearm has not been reported stolen, you are fine. Read up on krs chapters 237 & 527, these are the chapters that pertain to firearms.


    That is correct. The only thing you have to make sure is that the weapon does have a serial number. Other than that you don't have to do any paperwork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I don't know what you mean by "hold any weight". This is the state law in Ky. You read too fast or didn't pay close enough attention to what you were reading. Read it again, slowly. After the part about declared emergencies it says "or at any other time". Guns cannot legally be confiscated at any time except under the circumstance listed in that statute. You are not obligated to prove you are "over 18" or "not a felon" the LEO is required to have a specific suspicion that you are not 18 or you are a felon in order to detain you. Identifying yourself means giving your name and address not showing some papers or card and you are not require to even do that unless you are arrested and are seeking bail. A LEO doesn't need your consent to search you if he has RAS that you have committed a crime. Without RAS he can't even detain you and certainly can't search you or even touch you. This is one reason you should never consent to a casual encounter with a LEO, it usually escalates into something more serious. They will continue to take more and more liberties from you until you finally say "No". It's best to say "No" at first.
    While I agree with everything you said, the problem is a lot of LEO's will just do what they want anyhow. There is very little risk of any harm coming to them for violating your rights. While you and I read the 1983 statute in its clear language, it appears the courts take a more narrow view. The failure to show actual damages is one big factor in 1983 cases being dismissed. While one can file pro se, it is seldom sucessful when you are going up against a battery of lawyers that our tax money is funding to beat your brains out with motions and procedure.

    What we see mostly is an out of court settlement from an insurance company that is far less than they would spend in fighting the suit.

    While after jail time, and all the BS, a 10K check is nice. However, it is small potatoes when looked at in the big picture of city, county, and state governments. Also it takes no skin off of the LEO who goes happily on their way.

    My 2 cents.

    Gary

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    Ahh, you are right. I did read over it to fast. I retract my earlier comment..

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    While you may be historically correct, new case law supports the proposition that lawsuits are more viable now than in the past. In Ezell v Chicago a Federal judge ruled that the mere violation of a constitutional right was "irreparable harm". "Irreparable" can be a lot of dollars. In St. John v. McColly an Alamagordo, NM police officer was stripped of his qualified immunity by a federal judge and found personally liable just for telling a man in a movie theater to put his gun in his truck. The climate for gun rights violation lawsuits is improving every day. Dicta from Heller, MacDonald and Ezell has found its way down into the lower court system. At a minimum, complaints need to be filed at every instance of the slightest abuse at the hands of a LEO. The government at every level needs to be shown that we won't take this any more. They have grown accustomed to getting away with this. We can change that. A few $10,000 + attorney's fees judgements can put the insurance underwriters on notice.

    We can only hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    While you may be historically correct, new case law supports the proposition that lawsuits are more viable now than in the past. In Ezell v Chicago a Federal judge ruled that the mere violation of a constitutional right was "irreparable harm". "Irreparable" can be a lot of dollars. In St. John v. McColly an Alamagordo, NM police officer was stripped of his qualified immunity by a federal judge and found personally liable just for telling a man in a movie theater to put his gun in his truck. The climate for gun rights violation lawsuits is improving every day. Dicta from Heller, MacDonald and Ezell has found its way down into the lower court system. At a minimum, complaints need to be filed at every instance of the slightest abuse at the hands of a LEO. The government at every level needs to be shown that we won't take this any more. They have grown accustomed to getting away with this. We can change that. A few $10,000 + attorney's fees judgements can put the insurance underwriters on notice.

    Good stuff and I agree with you 100%.

    However, would you please tone down the font size, please? While it's not all caps, it still comes across as "shouting".

    Thanks,

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    Good stuff and I agree with you 100%.

    However, would you please tone down the font size, please? While it's not all caps, it still comes across as "shouting".

    Thanks,
    Normally, I would not respond to a post, such as this, but I feel as if I should. Gutshot is like me, old. We both use a larger font because it is easier to read. I have to enlarge most postings so that I can see them more clearly. So, If the font size bothers you, stay in Alabama and read the postings there. Thank you.
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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Good heavens Gunny, i know from my time residing in Ky that snippy responses are not the norm.

    so, as the question seems to be respectfully asked, coupled with the fact there are a lot of members outside Ky who appreciate the opportunity to glean information from different venues of this forum, request in the future, for those of us not familiar why the enlarged print is needed, you explain the rationale and leave it go at that.


    thanks

    wabbit

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    Normally, I would not respond to a post, such as this, but I feel as if I should. Gutshot is like me, old. We both use a larger font because it is easier to read. I have to enlarge most postings so that I can see them more clearly. So, If the font size bothers you, stay in Alabama and read the postings there. Thank you.
    Agreed, on the easier to read statement, and I'm only 26. It amazes me that we are portrayed as big bad gun guys by folks that don't like guns, yet we have people complaining of font size because it implies attitude? It means no such thing, simply means some have better eyes than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Agreed, on the easier to read statement, and I'm only 26. It amazes me that we are portrayed as big bad gun guys by folks that don't like guns, yet we have people complaining of font size because it implies attitude? It means no such thing, simply means some have better eyes than others.
    I don't mind bigger fonts either, the only time I don't like it is when I have to scroll down for an hour to get to the end of the post.

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    Off topic: If you find the default font size too small, the solution is to increase the font size in your own browser. That way both your messages and those you're reading are the same size.

    Simply hold the Ctrl key and scroll in or out to change font size on a page (in Windows). Holding Control while scrolling on a Mac will zoom the entire display in, centered on the cursor (handy for seeing small images and such).

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    Normally, I would not respond to a post, such as this, but I feel as if I should. Gutshot is like me, old. We both use a larger font because it is easier to read. I have to enlarge most postings so that I can see them more clearly. So, If the font size bothers you, stay in Alabama and read the postings there. Thank you.
    There's no excuse for this type of response. I asked quietly, respectfully and stated why I asked. I even said "please" twice. All caps posters are routinely asked to remove the all caps from their posts due to it's "shouting" format. Going up 2-3 sizes in font does the same thing. And, as one poster already stated, it's not necessary, just adjust your browser settings.

    If someone has eye problems, then the need for larger font is entirely understandable - being rude to explain it, isn't.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    you'al are cranky in ky...

    so much for the southern hospitality i experienced while living there...

    wabbit

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    so much for the southern hospitality i experienced while living there...

    wabbit
    People just read too much into the situation. I actually would rather him have his font bigger because it sets it apart from others, I can just read the content and don't have to keep checking who posted it. I don't understand why people get butt-hurt over something as trivial as a larger font.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    This is your third post on this minor and unimportant issue. If this bothers you, I suspect you will not be happy in this forum. I, for one, do not intend to change my posting habits to conform to your standards or those of anyone else. If it offends you I suggest you not read my post or use the ignore button. Thank you for your advice even though it was not asked for or followed.

    First, I only posted twice about this previous to this post (this is the third one).

    Secondly, your font size neither bothers me nor offends me in any way. It was a simple request, politely and respectfully offered for reasons I've already explained - twice. If you need a bigger font size to see, good for you; especially if the alternative is that you can't use the forum - you may want to review my first sentence in my first post in this thread as to why I say that.

    Lastly, I'm very happy with this forum and with the vast majority of the posts I read, regardless of the specific forum locations - I use the "New Posts" link, that way I see what's the latest across the entire board. Absent this minor distraction, I've enjoyed this thread and what I've learned from it - something I've come to expect from OCDO.

    Have a nice day.

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    I think we are all off subject, we are all here for the same reason, knowledge and spreading knowledge of our rights. We are all on the same team, I don't think there were any hostile posts here I simply think that the larger, bolded, or even all caps words are used for emphasis so important words aren't overlooked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbale22 View Post
    I think we are all off subject, we are all here for the same reason, knowledge and spreading knowledge of our rights. We are all on the same team, I don't think there were any hostile posts here I simply think that the larger, bolded, or even all caps words are used for emphasis so important words aren't overlooked.
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