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Will I have an issue carrying lobby day?

DontTreadOnMeVa

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
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132
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Well, some how I managed to lose my DL this week and feel very silly about it. I went to get a new one from the DMV and found out they mail the new copy to you and do not simply issue you one!

So as it is I have:

CHP
Expired motorcycle learner's permit ID
Expired passport

What I do not have:
An unexpired government issued ID

So, two questions. One, am I excluded from Carrying inside on lobby day? Two, am I actually out of complacency for CC till I get my new unexpired ID? Must the government issued ID be current?

I hope someone can help me navigate this one...
 

Wolf_shadow

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
1,215
Location
Accomac, Virginia, USA
Well, some how I managed to lose my DL this week and feel very silly about it. I went to get a new one from the DMV and found out they mail the new copy to you and do not simply issue you one!

So as it is I have:

CHP
Expired motorcycle learner's permit ID
Expired passport

What I do not have:
An unexpired government issued ID

So, two questions. One, am I excluded from Carrying inside on lobby day? Two, am I actually out of complacency for CC till I get my new unexpired ID? Must the government issued ID be current?

I hope someone can help me navigate this one...
IANAL but as I recall the only thing I showed last year was my CHP. They never asked fo any thing else. Hopefully the more experenced here can give a better answer.:confused:
 

ProShooter

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www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
When carrying concealed with your Va CHP, you must have one of these 3 id's with you:

18.2-308 H

"The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. "
 
Last edited:

Wolf_shadow

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
1,215
Location
Accomac, Virginia, USA
When carrying concealed with your Va CHP, you must have one of these 3 id's with you:

18.2-308 H

"The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. "
While this applies to CC, I was thinking he would open carry Monday negating the need for ID, but to get into GA Building he would still need his CHP.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
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Location
Quarryville, PA
When carrying concealed with your Va CHP, you must have one of these 3 id's with you:

18.2-308 H

"The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. "

So I guess the question remains whether or not said identification can be expired. I would think that an expired passport meets the criteria above. Of course IANAL and could be wrong.
 

DontTreadOnMeVa

Regular Member
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When carrying concealed with your Va CHP, you must have one of these 3 id's with you:

18.2-308 H

"The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. "

That still begs the question is an expired passport ok? Virginia excepts an expired passport as a form of ID for getting your DL replaced. So the question is, does Va require the ID be current? ..or is the fact it is a government issued photo-ID enough?


I wont be CC on lobby day.
 

mk4

Regular Member
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Messages
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Location
VA
if it were me, absent a solid legal opinion i could bank on, i'd just stay oc until i got my new dl. did dmv say how long it would take?
 

DontTreadOnMeVa

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if it were me, absent a solid legal opinion i could bank on, i'd just stay oc until i got my new dl. did dmv say how long it would take?

Couple of days....after lobby day. I OC mostly anyway, so that is not a problem. My real issue is lobby day and if I will have grief getting in.
 

skidmark

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Valhalla
OK, I actually called the Capitol Police and asked them about it. The answer is that as far as they know the issue has never come up before. But they offered a "possible" solution - the OP should have received an electronic receipt for the renewal transaction. The Capitol Police suggested that the renewal receipt works just like the receipt for renewing your tags on-line - it covers you until the new stickers show up in the mail.

The Officers I spoke with were very clear in stating that they did not know the answer, but thought that what they were suggesting would be accepted by any of the Capitol Police officers any visitor encountered. (No, I did not mention Lobby Day when I called.)

So - there we have it - nobody knows for sure but there seems to be a "reasonable" solution.

stay safe.
 

DontTreadOnMeVa

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OK, I actually called the Capitol Police and asked them about it. The answer is that as far as they know the issue has never come up before. But they offered a "possible" solution - the OP should have received an electronic receipt for the renewal transaction. The Capitol Police suggested that the renewal receipt works just like the receipt for renewing your tags on-line - it covers you until the new stickers show up in the mail.

The Officers I spoke with were very clear in stating that they did not know the answer, but thought that what they were suggesting would be accepted by any of the Capitol Police officers any visitor encountered. (No, I did not mention Lobby Day when I called.)

So - there we have it - nobody knows for sure but there seems to be a "reasonable" solution.

stay safe.

I did not do the renewal/replacement request online. I did it in person, I was given a stamped 'temporary permit' which is what I guess would have been available had I done it online.

I will have the stamped temporary permit I was given with me and see that happens.

Thank you all for your help in this matter.

Thank you Skid.

Will
 

sol

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
33
Location
Fairfax County VA
I did not do the renewal/replacement request online. I did it in person, I was given a stamped 'temporary permit' which is what I guess would have been available had I done it online.

I will have the stamped temporary permit I was given with me and see that happens.

Thank you all for your help in this matter.

Thank you Skid.

Will

Ive seen the temp ones but i dont recall them being photo. Probably if you have an expired passport with the text temporary you might be ok. Verrrrry interesting!
 

DJEEPER

Regular Member
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Feb 26, 2010
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Yorktown, ,
IANAL, but if it were me, I would carry my permit, expired license and temp copy. (unless i misunderstood....and the OP doesnt have a physical license, then carry all 2 sans expired license and a secondary form, such as a passport) You do not need ID in VA if you are only OC'ing....especially if you have a CHP on hand.
 

DontTreadOnMeVa

Regular Member
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IANAL, but if it were me, I would carry my permit, expired license and temp copy. (unless i misunderstood....and the OP doesnt have a physical license, then carry all 2 sans expired license and a secondary form, such as a passport) You do not need ID in VA if you are only OC'ing....especially if you have a CHP on hand.


I will have all that and a more. I will be OCing all day, just as I did when I had no CHP anyway. ....and I have one ace in the hole. If they bulk and wont let me carry inside. The little woman will be going to her first lobby day and she can double up if need be! She loves any excuse to have my HK :)
 

DontTreadOnMeVa

Regular Member
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Ive seen the temp ones but i dont recall them being photo. Probably if you have an expired passport with the text temporary you might be ok. Verrrrry interesting!

No no photo on the temp or it would be a non-issue.


Again, thanks everyone....and Skidmark for checking in with the capital police.

-Will
 

USNA69

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
375
Location
Norfolk, Virginia, USA
When carrying concealed with your Va CHP, you must have one of these 3 id's with you:

18.2-308 H

"The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. "

I am not a lawyer, although I have been accused in years long passed of being a "sea lawyer".

That being said, please note that 18.2-308 H does not contain the words "valid" or "current" in describing the forms of identification. I submit that even an expired ID would meet the requiremrnt, as written.

Of course, those words may be implicit. I would not want to be the test case and have my fate rest on that argument.

Still, it would have been very easy for the GA to add one of those words and remove all doubt, wouldn't it?
 

Citizen

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Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP

That being said, please note that 18.2-308 H does not contain the words "valid" or "current" in describing the forms of identification. I submit that even an expired ID would meet the requiremrnt, as written.

Of course, those words may be implicit. I would not want to be the test case and have my fate rest on that argument.


Because we all know that government is too stupid to figure out that just because the ID expired, the holder could not have magically transformed into a different person.

Hey! Wait a minute! I may have just stumbled on a legal justification for schizophrenia!

"Your honor, it couldn't have been me. My ID was expired. There was no way I could have been that person."

I mean really. Government wants you tagged, numbered, and identified. Well, if their official document that says you are you expires, then you can't possibly be you, can you?

Bwhahahahahahahahahahaa!!!
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
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Valhalla
I am not a lawyer, although I have been accused in years long passed of being a "sea lawyer".

That being said, please note that 18.2-308 H does not contain the words "valid" or "current" in describing the forms of identification. I submit that even an expired ID would meet the requiremrnt, as written.

Of course, those words may be implicit. I would not want to be the test case and have my fate rest on that argument.

Still, it would have been very easy for the GA to add one of those words and remove all doubt, wouldn't it?



Because we all know that government is too stupid to figure out that just because the ID expired, the holder could not have magically transformed into a different person.

Hey! Wait a minute! I may have just stumbled on a legal justification for schizophrenia!

"Your honor, it couldn't have been me. My ID was expired. There was no way I could have been that person."

I mean really. Government wants you tagged, numbered, and identified. Well, if their official document that says you are you expires, then you can't possibly be you, can you?

Bwhahahahahahahahahahaa!!!


What's really scary is that Citizen is very close to being not only right but also correct about this.

Once it expires, your DL is both no longer valid as a permission slip and as a form of identification. DMV requires you to bring in certain proofs that you are who you say you want to be on your DL, and then if those are accepted and you pass the skill/knowledge test you get a DL. That DL is, besides being a permission slip, merely an indicator that the proofs you brought in were accepted - it is not actually a proof that you are you.

Since most folks do not carry their birth certificate, baptismal records, passport or other accepted proofs of identification with them on a routine basis, the gooberment has created the shortcut step of accepting a proof that your proofs were OK as proof that you are really you. But that shortcut expires when your DL document expires - if you get your DL renewed you get issued a new document that serves as the shortcut.

For those of you who are still scratching their heads and trying to figure this out, try dealing with what folks need tro do if they used to have a valid DL but for any of a number of reasons may not or no longer desire to drive. What do they do for ID when their most recent DL expires? Can they still use it? No! The gooberment came up with the non-driver photo ID document http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-345 . And that has a time limit on validity, too!

It's really not about you being you - it's about paying the gooberment to say you are you.

stay safe.
 

sidestreet

Regular Member
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Jul 12, 2007
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Okay, so what's the hang up on this?

Wolf shadow has summed this up nicely. One can OC at the GA as long as they can produce a valid CHP. As long as you are OC and not CC, you do not have to have accompanying prescribed form of ID when CCing. That's it in a nutshell. That's pretty simple to me, but it can't be simple enough for the Capital Police.

Does that mean that you won't get hassled by the Capital Police, no, they've been doing that for a long time. I don't have any doubt that they (Capital Police) don't know the answer, but that's never stopped them before. They are the proverbial horse that you can lead to water, but cannot get them to drink, no "horse sense" there, and even less common sense. It's ironic to me that they can be so physically close to the actual origination point of the law, yet not able to understand it at all.

There is no confusion to me, on the OP's query.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I think they'll mistake you for a terrorist if you try to pass off a temporary permit and expired Passport......

And shoot you on sight!

:lol::banana::lol::monkey
 
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