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Thread: King Count Library or Seattle Library Carry

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    King Count Library or Seattle Library Carry

    I remember the issue of Seattle Library making up its own "rules" against weapons, contrary to State pre-emption laws, being brought up on the forum back in 2010. I read that Spokane Library and council were successfully educated.
    I have been off forum for awhile and am curious if there have been any developments since then for Seattle or King County libraries?
    Thanks
    Last edited by Hendo; 01-12-2012 at 06:35 PM.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    The Seattle Public Library still lists a prohibiton on weapons in it's code of conduct.

    See this link for that text: http://www.spl.org/about-the-library...les-of-conduct
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    King County Library System lists possession of "Unlawful Weapons" in their code of conduct.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    They are all keenly aware that they may not make rules regarding the legal carry of firearms.

    Now that said, it doesn't keep them from posting non-specific signs to scare off the ignorant, such as the ever prevalent pistol with a red circle cross over it and small print at the bottom that says "As per 9.41.270", which is essentially saying "No brandishing without lawful cause".

    Or my favorite, the one that says "No illegal weapons allowed".

    Well duh.

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    So it sounds like King County Librarys have fine tuned their rules of conduct to "unlawful possesion of weapons" - okay - open carry and concealed with a cpl =lawful.
    Seattle Library still has a case to answer for.
    Thanks

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    Read the first line in Catagory E.
    Still wrong though.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    I just sent an email to the administrative review address at the SPL:

    I have a question about the Code of Conduct enforced by the Seattle Public Library:

    The first line of Category E of the SPL Code of Conduct bans possession of a firearm except by law enforcement.

    RCW 9.41.290 preempts regulation of firearm possession to the state alone.

    Title 18, Chapter 13, Section 242 of the U.S. Code forbids use of official authority to infringe upon any statutory, civil or constitutional right under color of law.

    From a simple reading of the U.S. Code section and the RCW, it appears that attempting to enforce that Code of Conduct section is a misdemeanor level offense under state law, and a misdemeanor-level civil rights violation under federal law (which would open the city to a lawsuit under Title 42, Chapter 21, Section 1983 of the U.S. Code as well).

    Is that section of the Code of Conduct currently being enforced? And if so, what is the justification for it?
    Assuming they deign to answer me, the reply should be fascinating.

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    It's funny, I'll OC pretty much anywhere except church but I also cover up when I enter the Kennewick library. I never thought about that... It's strange, the things we do without thinking.

    My libraries here in Kennewick don't have a specific weapons policy, just this, "1) Engaging in any activity in violation of federal, state, local, or other applicable law, or library policy." No problem with OC there.

    Also this, "4) Entering or being in the library barefoot, without a shirt, with a wet bathing suit, with offensive body odor or personal hygiene, or being otherwise attired to as to be disruptive to the library environment." I could see that being used to run off an OCer...
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    The only way a properly holstered firearm is "disruptive" to a library environment is if someone else gets disruptive over a preempted and legal act.

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    The only way a properly holstered firearm is "disruptive" to a library environment is if someone else gets disruptive over a preempted and legal act.
    True, but I've met and worked with piles of librarians as my mother was a librarian... As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today; though Privacy and Free Speech are important enough to resist the Feds regarding records of who checked out what.

    I think I'm going to OC next time and see what happens.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    True, but I've met and worked with piles of librarians as my mother was a librarian... As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today; though Privacy and Free Speech are important enough to resist the Feds regarding records of who checked out what.

    I think I'm going to OC next time and see what happens.
    If the second amendment and being armed are unnecessary, then so is the first amendment and freedom of speech. After all, if the world is so safe and just that you never need to defend yourself, then the world is also so safe and just that you don't need to speak out either.

    I wonder how many librarians would support the abolition of libraries on that basis?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    True, but I've met and worked with piles of librarians as my mother was a librarian... As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today; though Privacy and Free Speech are important enough to resist the Feds regarding records of who checked out what.

    I think I'm going to OC next time and see what happens.
    Ask them how long they think their "Privacy and Free Speech" will continue once the 2nd Amendment falls by the wayside? Tell them to read in their materials why the 2nd Amendment was written into the Bill of Rights. To protect the People from an out of control government. When governments get out of control the first thing that is lost is what we here have in the 1st Amendment, backed up by the 2nd Amendment.

    Tell these Librarians to start reading what they keep on the shelves. Get out of the "Fiction" section.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today
    LOL, there is almost always a Kent cop outside or inside the downtown Kent library when I go 1-2 times a week. I always CC there. It is a magnet for homeless/ICP kids with nothing better to do...
    Last edited by trevorthebusdriver; 01-16-2012 at 03:22 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorthebusdriver View Post
    LOL, there is almost always a Kent cop outside or inside the downtown Kent library when I go 1-2 times a week. I always CC there. It is a magnet for homeless/ICP kids with nothing better to do...
    They would say that having LE on site is protection enough...
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    They would say that having LE on site is protection enough...
    Our local library doesn't have a cop outside, they just have someone that dresses like a cop. Full uniform, similar badge, and no gun. Most of them are close to 300#.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  16. #16
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    The only way a properly holstered firearm is "disruptive" to a library environment is if someone else gets disruptive over a preempted and legal act.
    Just wondering, but are you singing a different tune in the Hempfest thread?
    Last edited by jbone; 01-22-2012 at 08:03 PM.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    Just wondering, but are you signing a different tune in the Hempfest thread?
    copy from other thread.
    Based on teh replies from hempfest, they are limiting firearms at the order of either the city or a private organization. Yes, they are choosing to bow to the other organization, but their other choice is to NOT have their event. They are making the choice to promote their chosen agenda within the restrictions of current politics. Don't blame the messenger for the mixed message, blame the organizations forcing the second message.

    Umm no , I am discussing two separate concepts. The libraries are Public Organizations, they are under state preemption. Hempfest is a private organization and can choose to limit activities under their perview. That their choice is effectively to limit firearms or not even be open is the issue, here in this thread. Hempfest is attempting to change an illegal act into a legal one, therefore they have more limitation on their actions than a completely legal activity, should or will have.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Huh,,,, what,,, well,

    can they rent "MY" public/my owned" property and excape state preemption?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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