• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

King Count Library or Seattle Library Carry

H

Hendo

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
114
Location
, ,
I remember the issue of Seattle Library making up its own "rules" against weapons, contrary to State pre-emption laws, being brought up on the forum back in 2010. I read that Spokane Library and council were successfully educated.
I have been off forum for awhile and am curious if there have been any developments since then for Seattle or King County libraries?
Thanks
 
Last edited:
FMCDH

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
They are all keenly aware that they may not make rules regarding the legal carry of firearms.

Now that said, it doesn't keep them from posting non-specific signs to scare off the ignorant, such as the ever prevalent pistol with a red circle cross over it and small print at the bottom that says "As per 9.41.270", which is essentially saying "No brandishing without lawful cause".

Or my favorite, the one that says "No illegal weapons allowed".

Well duh. :rolleyes:
 
H

Hendo

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
114
Location
, ,
So it sounds like King County Librarys have fine tuned their rules of conduct to "unlawful possesion of weapons" - okay - open carry and concealed with a cpl =lawful.
Seattle Library still has a case to answer for.
Thanks
 
Difdi

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
I just sent an email to the administrative review address at the SPL:

I have a question about the Code of Conduct enforced by the Seattle Public Library:

The first line of Category E of the SPL Code of Conduct bans possession of a firearm except by law enforcement.

RCW 9.41.290 preempts regulation of firearm possession to the state alone.

Title 18, Chapter 13, Section 242 of the U.S. Code forbids use of official authority to infringe upon any statutory, civil or constitutional right under color of law.

From a simple reading of the U.S. Code section and the RCW, it appears that attempting to enforce that Code of Conduct section is a misdemeanor level offense under state law, and a misdemeanor-level civil rights violation under federal law (which would open the city to a lawsuit under Title 42, Chapter 21, Section 1983 of the U.S. Code as well).

Is that section of the Code of Conduct currently being enforced? And if so, what is the justification for it?
Click to expand...

Assuming they deign to answer me, the reply should be fascinating.
 
Freedom First

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
It's funny, I'll OC pretty much anywhere except church but I also cover up when I enter the Kennewick library. I never thought about that... It's strange, the things we do without thinking.

My libraries here in Kennewick don't have a specific weapons policy, just this, "1) Engaging in any activity in violation of federal, state, local, or other applicable law, or library policy." No problem with OC there.

Also this, "4) Entering or being in the library barefoot, without a shirt, with a wet bathing suit, with offensive body odor or personal hygiene, or being otherwise attired to as to be disruptive to the library environment." I could see that being used to run off an OCer...
 
Vitaeus

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
The only way a properly holstered firearm is "disruptive" to a library environment is if someone else gets disruptive over a preempted and legal act.
 
Freedom First

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
Vitaeus said:
The only way a properly holstered firearm is "disruptive" to a library environment is if someone else gets disruptive over a preempted and legal act.
Click to expand...

True, but I've met and worked with piles of librarians as my mother was a librarian... As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today; though Privacy and Free Speech are important enough to resist the Feds regarding records of who checked out what.

I think I'm going to OC next time and see what happens.
 
Difdi

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Freedom First said:
True, but I've met and worked with piles of librarians as my mother was a librarian... As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today; though Privacy and Free Speech are important enough to resist the Feds regarding records of who checked out what.

I think I'm going to OC next time and see what happens.
Click to expand...

If the second amendment and being armed are unnecessary, then so is the first amendment and freedom of speech. After all, if the world is so safe and just that you never need to defend yourself, then the world is also so safe and just that you don't need to speak out either.

I wonder how many librarians would support the abolition of libraries on that basis?
 
amlevin

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Freedom First said:
True, but I've met and worked with piles of librarians as my mother was a librarian... As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today; though Privacy and Free Speech are important enough to resist the Feds regarding records of who checked out what.

I think I'm going to OC next time and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Ask them how long they think their "Privacy and Free Speech" will continue once the 2nd Amendment falls by the wayside? Tell them to read in their materials why the 2nd Amendment was written into the Bill of Rights. To protect the People from an out of control government. When governments get out of control the first thing that is lost is what we here have in the 1st Amendment, backed up by the 2nd Amendment.

Tell these Librarians to start reading what they keep on the shelves. Get out of the "Fiction" section.
 
trevorthebusdriver

trevorthebusdriver

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
591
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
Freedom First said:
As a general rule, they tend towards the "Come on, the world is a safe place" worldview and thus guns and the Rights protected by the Constitution are unnecessary today
Click to expand...

LOL, there is almost always a Kent cop outside or inside the downtown Kent library when I go 1-2 times a week. I always CC there. It is a magnet for homeless/ICP kids with nothing better to do...
 
Last edited:
jbone

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
Vitaeus said:
The only way a properly holstered firearm is "disruptive" to a library environment is if someone else gets disruptive over a preempted and legal act.
Click to expand...

Just wondering, but are you singing a different tune in the Hempfest thread?
 
Last edited:
Vitaeus

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
jbone said:
Just wondering, but are you signing a different tune in the Hempfest thread?
Click to expand...

copy from other thread.
Based on teh replies from hempfest, they are limiting firearms at the order of either the city or a private organization. Yes, they are choosing to bow to the other organization, but their other choice is to NOT have their event. They are making the choice to promote their chosen agenda within the restrictions of current politics. Don't blame the messenger for the mixed message, blame the organizations forcing the second message.

Umm no , I am discussing two separate concepts. The libraries are Public Organizations, they are under state preemption. Hempfest is a private organization and can choose to limit activities under their perview. That their choice is effectively to limit firearms or not even be open is the issue, here in this thread. Hempfest is attempting to change an illegal act into a legal one, therefore they have more limitation on their actions than a completely legal activity, should or will have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top