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Thread: Feds Won't Charge Ian Birk in Woodcarver Murder.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Feds Won't Charge Ian Birk in Woodcarver Murder.

    http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/crim...-john-t/nGMb7/

    Feds won't charge former SPD officer in shooting death of John T. Williams

    Officer Ian Birk, the man who shot and killed Williams, resigned on Feb. 16, 2011, after a firearms review panel ruled the shooting unjustified.

    SEATTLE —

    Federal officials announced Friday not to file charges against former Seattle police Officer Ian Birk in the 2010 shooting death of woodcarver John T. Williams.

    The U.S. Attorney’s Office explained the decision in a news release:


    "Under the applicable federal criminal civil rights laws, prosecutors must establish, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a law enforcement officer willfully deprived an individual of a constitutional right, meaning with the deliberate and specific intent to do something the law forbids. This is the highest standard of intent imposed by law. Accident, mistake, fear, negligence or bad judgment is not sufficient to establish a federal criminal civil rights violation. After a careful and thorough review, a team of experienced federal prosecutors and FBI agents determined that the evidence was insufficient to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the former Seattle Police Officer acted willfully and with the deliberate and specific intent to do something the law forbids."


    Birk resigned after a Seattle Police Department review board found the shooting unjustified, but county prosecutors later declined to file charges against him. Williams' family settled with the city for $1.5 million last year.


    The case is now considered closed.

    I wonder what would happen in one of use killed someone by "Accident, mistake, fear, negligence or bad judgment".

  2. #2
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    Angry

    T Y P I C A L

    One standard for the productive sector, and another for the consumptive sector.

  3. #3
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Maybe they should try for an "excessive force" conviction like they did with Thompson in Spokane. At least that way Birk will never legally possess a firearm again.

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    Unfortunately, the supreme law of the land forbids depriving a person of life, liberty, or property without due process. Fifth Amendment.

    Did Birk even get a state manslaughter charge?

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    T Y P I C A L

    One standard for the productive sector, and another for the consumptive sector.
    I think it's more like the parasitic sector protecting other parasites.

    The double standard is obvious and clear and Washington State law makes it absolutely clear we are not supposed to have a double standard and that LEO use of lethal force is to be a lot less narrow than the general public. Ian Birk is a murderer.

    From RCW 9A.16.040

    Legislative recognition: "The legislature recognizes that RCW 9A.16.040 establishes a dual standard with respect to the use of deadly force by peace officers and private citizens, and further recognizes that private citizens' permissible use of deadly force under the authority of RCW 9.01.200, 9A.16.020, or 9A.16.050 is not restricted and remains broader than the limitations imposed on peace officers."
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Unfortunately, the supreme law of the land forbids depriving a person of life, liberty, or property without due process. Fifth Amendment.

    Did Birk even get a state manslaughter charge?
    I don't think so grand jury's are a rubber stamp for what a prosecutor wants. In cases like this the family should have been able to entreat the grand jury with their lawyer.

    I still think he should be tried by private prosecution. Maybe in a tribal court.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post

    I still think he should be tried by private prosecution. Maybe in a tribal court.
    Tribal court has no jurisdiction over non-tribal individuals.

    If I recall correctly, the family of John T. Williams has urged everyone to move on.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I think it's more like the parasitic sector protecting other parasites.

    The double standard is obvious and clear and Washington State law makes it absolutely clear we are not supposed to have a double standard and that LEO use of lethal force is to be a lot less narrow than the general public. Ian Birk is a murderer.

    From RCW 9A.16.040

    Legislative recognition: "The legislature recognizes that RCW 9A.16.040 establishes a dual standard with respect to the use of deadly force by peace officers and private citizens, and further recognizes that private citizens' permissible use of deadly force under the authority of RCW 9.01.200, 9A.16.020, or 9A.16.050 is not restricted and remains broader than the limitations imposed on peace officers."
    So, the question is: Does Birk not being charged for going out of his way to murder someone mean that we can go much further? We all know that is BS. If any one of us did what Birk did, we would be sitting in prison, rotting.

    It appears that LEO's are placed under a higher standard because they are trained. The FED's came out, and stated that Seattle Police were not training their officers properly. As a result, Birk could argue in a criminal court that the finding of the FED was such that it was not Birk's fault, rather, it was SPD's fault for not training him properly.

    Birk's case has set a new standard for police with regard to when they can shoot a person, and when they cannot. Be safe out their! BTW, if a woodcarver with a folded knife, and a block of wood could be shot because he is a threat to the life of an officer who injects himself into a situation where he had no cause, then any one of us could be murdered, legally, by an officer who is walking by us while we are OC'ing.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-17-2012 at 02:18 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Hi Sarah, good to see you posting again. You have been missed.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I post outside of the Washington thread.

    I figured I would drive people crazy in the public threads, and not here, where I will surely, eventually, see some of you at a BBQ or Denny's LOL.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Tribal court has no jurisdiction over non-tribal individuals.

    If I recall correctly, the family of John T. Williams has urged everyone to move on.
    I am well aware of that.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    So, the question is: Does Birk not being charged for going out of his way to murder someone mean that we can go much further? We all know that is BS. If any one of us did what Birk did, we would be sitting in prison, rotting.

    It appears that LEO's are placed under a higher standard because they are trained. The FED's came out, and stated that Seattle Police were not training their officers properly. As a result, Birk could argue in a criminal court that the finding of the FED was such that it was not Birk's fault, rather, it was SPD's fault for not training him properly.

    Birk's case has set a new standard for police with regard to when they can shoot a person, and when they cannot. Be safe out their! BTW, if a woodcarver with a folded knife, and a block of wood could be shot because he is a threat to the life of an officer who injects himself into a situation where he had no cause, then any one of us could be murdered, legally, by an officer who is walking by us while we are OC'ing.
    Washington is very poor in prosecuting cops. We are 2nd in the nation for lack prosecution and for cops serving time. The courts, prosecutors and LEO have all developed a nice cozy relationship in this state. We need to sever the ties between those three branches. We also need to stop letting grand juries be the rubber stamp of prosecutors.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    This thread interested me enough to take the time to do a news search and find out about this. I could not find clarification if he knife was for sure closed at the time of the shooting, however, the entire thing sounds like a horrible excessive force that lead to a death situation. I can't imagine how angry the family and community must have been over this.

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    This thread interested me enough to take the time to do a news search and find out about this. I could not find clarification if he knife was for sure closed at the time of the shooting, however, the entire thing sounds like a horrible excessive force that lead to a death situation. I can't imagine how angry the family and community must have been over this.
    The Family isn't so mad anymore. They got an apology ----- and $1.5 Million dollars.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The Family isn't so mad anymore. They got an apology ----- and $1.5 Million dollars.
    I read that too. .. That's why I used past tense. :-)

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The Family isn't so mad anymore. They got an apology ----- and $1.5 Million dollars.
    And what about the people of Washington, who have to live under a regime which establishes such precedent that is so blatantly inimical to the liberty and safety of its citizens?

    Should they let it go too?

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    And what about the people of Washington, who have to live under a regime which establishes such precedent that is so blatantly inimical to the liberty and safety of its citizens?

    Should they let it go too?
    Good news it's only Seattle and the SPD Chief says they aren't broken.
    Live Free or Die!

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Good news it's only Seattle and the SPD Chief says they aren't broken.
    Ahh but it isn't just Seattle it's a statewide problem, its a prevalent attitude among many Washington agencies, Seattle is just the most blatant because of its population. We have a horrible rating as a state for prosecuting and incarcerating cops. Seattle is 7th in Ranking for misconduct by cops in U.S. cities.

    Murder is the one of the worst symptoms, but all the tell tale signs are there. All you have to do is a little research in your area and you'll find bad, aggressive, lying cops almost anywhere in Washington. Even the little town of Orting.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 01-19-2012 at 09:55 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Washington is very poor in prosecuting cops. We are 2nd in the nation for lack prosecution and for cops serving time. The courts, prosecutors and LEO have all developed a nice cozy relationship in this state. We need to sever the ties between those three branches. We also need to stop letting grand juries be the rubber stamp of prosecutors.
    Agreed.

    there are a number of wonderful things in Washington state regarding the right to have, and carry arms. One downside is the LEO issue.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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