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Thread: SB 324: Limitation on Administrative Actions Relating to Firearms Act; established.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Exclamation SB 324: Limitation on Administrative Actions Relating to Firearms Act; established.

    SB 324: Limitation on Administrative Actions Relating to Firearms Act; established.

    Limitation on administrative actions relating to Firearms Act. Establishes legislative preemption of any administrative action taken by an administrative body that has the direct or indirect effect of governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage, or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, unless the administrative body has express statutory authority. Under the bill, any administrative action taken prior to July 1, 2012, having a direct or indirect effect of governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid. The bill also requires administrative bodies to take appropriate action to bring any contrary administrative action into compliance.


    Well... here's the bill we've all been waiting for. It's large and complex, so I will refrain from commenting (well, not very much) until I've had a chance to look it over.

    I did notice one great big exemption:


    § 2.2-4123. Exemptions.

    The following administrative bodies shall be exempted from the provisions of this chapter:

    4. Educational institutions operated by the Commonwealth in the promulgating regulations regarding the carry of firearms inside campus buildings by those not legally permitted to carry concealed handguns.


    So I guess we will see what happens.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    As I would expect, the bill has been referred to Courts of Justice.

    TFred

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    4. Educational institutions operated by the Commonwealth in the promulgating regulations regarding the carry of firearms inside campus buildings by those not legally permitted to carry concealed handguns.
    "Legally permitted" Meaning no CHP?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-13-2012 at 07:11 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    "Legally permitted" Meaning no CHP?
    I assume the intent of that particular exception is to allow colleges and universities to prohibit carry in campus buildings by anyone who may not legally carry a concealed handgun. Or in other words, if you have a permit, or are otherwise entitled to carry concealed, then the institution may not prohibit you from carrying a handgun inside campus buildings.

    That's my guess.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I assume the intent of that particular exception is to allow colleges and universities to prohibit carry in campus buildings by anyone who may not legally carry a concealed handgun. Or in other words, if you have a permit, or are otherwise entitled to carry concealed, then the institution may not prohibit you from carrying a handgun inside campus buildings.

    That's my guess.

    TFred
    We all know how BGs will obey that. The ones most in need, staff and students, may still be kept defenseless.
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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I assume the intent of that particular exception is to allow colleges and universities to prohibit carry in campus buildings by anyone who may not legally carry a concealed handgun. Or in other words, if you have a permit, or are otherwise entitled to carry concealed, then the institution may not prohibit you from carrying a handgun inside campus buildings.

    That's my guess.

    TFred
    So sounds like a good solution is to pass the constitutional carry bill. If that happens and from the way that sounds they wouldn't be able to prohibit open carry either. Then they can only make regulations against those who can't legally carry a gun anyway.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Hmmm. There are SEVERAL ways one might legally conceal a firearm without getting a CHP. On your own property, hunting in inclement weather, transporting a firearm to/from a range or gunsmith...

    In fact the only way under current law for one to be prohibited from CC at all is to be a prohibited person i.e. felon, mental defect, domestic violence, etc.
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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    It sounds like the language does not exclude open carry if you have a CHP :^).

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Does this also include employees of said agencies? Also does this apply to everyone state, local, county, government (except federal) agencies?
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Does this also include employees of said agencies? Essentially, yes. Also students and staff at colleges/universities/schools.


    Also does this apply to everyone state, local, county, government (except federal) agencies? Just STATE agencies.
    The available information is that this is a "first step" so that later on down the road there will be less gnashing of teeth, wailing and rending of clothing when these restrictions are imposed on (in presumed order) the localities and then as the final step private enterprise.

    Nobody has yet been able to tell me how this will square with the State's Workplace Violence Prevention Act and the regulations/policies in place to enact that, or how it will be received by OSHA which has another workplace violence prevention regulation.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    SB 324: Limitation on Administrative Actions Relating to Firearms Act; established.

    Limitation on administrative actions relating to Firearms Act. Establishes legislative preemption of any administrative action taken by an administrative body that has the direct or indirect effect of governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage, or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, unless the administrative body has express statutory authority. Under the bill, any administrative action taken prior to July 1, 2012, having a direct or indirect effect of governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid. The bill also requires administrative bodies to take appropriate action to bring any contrary administrative action into compliance.


    Well... here's the bill we've all been waiting for. It's large and complex, so I will refrain from commenting (well, not very much) until I've had a chance to look it over.

    I did notice one great big exemption:



    § 2.2-4123. Exemptions.

    The following administrative bodies shall be exempted from the provisions of this chapter:

    4. Educational institutions operated by the Commonwealth in the promulgating regulations regarding the carry of firearms inside campus buildings by those not legally permitted to carry concealed handguns.


    So I guess we will see what happens.

    TFred
    So if this passes, those with a CHP can open carry, right?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I assume the intent of that particular exception is to allow colleges and universities to prohibit carry in campus buildings by anyone who may not legally carry a concealed handgun. Or in other words, if you have a permit, or are otherwise entitled to carry concealed, then the institution may not prohibit you from carrying a handgun inside campus buildings.

    That's my guess.

    TFred
    I am guessing that too, just poorly worded... So if this passes could OC be legal in college? or is just talking about CC only.?
    It sounds like the language does not exclude open carry if you have a CHP :^).
    Sounds about right.

    I don't know how well people would feel about OC in college, Good education. The antis would flip out if people starte OCing in college. I would just be glad for CC in college.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-14-2012 at 12:40 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    I am guessing that too, just poorly worded... So if this passes could OC be legal in college? or is just talking about CC only.?
    Sounds about right.

    I don't know how well people would feel about OC in college, Good education. The antis would flip out if people starte OCing in college. I would just be glad for CC in college.
    By restricting this to ONLY CC in college also prevents more than HALF of the student body from defending themselves. Most college students don't turn 21 until their Junior or even Senior year of college. Why prevent those most vulnerable (those that usually live in dorms) from defending themselves? Many upperclassmen have cars, jobs and may live off-campus. Most Freshman must live in the dorms and are almost certainly under 21. Most of them are 18 at most (with the exception of a few "returning" to school after completing a military obligation).

    Just my $.02 worth with a 20-year old student in the well-known Combat Zone
    (recently voted a target-rich environment) called "ODU"...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    By restricting this to ONLY CC in college also prevents more than HALF of the student body from defending themselves. Most college students don't turn 21 until their Junior or even Senior year of college. Why prevent those most vulnerable (those that usually live in dorms) from defending themselves? Many upperclassmen have cars, jobs and may live off-campus. Most Freshman must live in the dorms and are almost certainly under 21. Most of them are 18 at most (with the exception of a few "returning" to school after completing a military obligation).

    Just my $.02 worth with a 20-year old student in the well-known Combat Zone
    (recently voted a target-rich environment) called "ODU"...
    I absolutely agree that everyone should have their right to self-defense fully protected, but, on the other hand, this bill means that roughly half of students would be able to protect themselves and those around them, which is infinitely better than it is now. This bill will obviously also be a huge benefit to older people who might take just a class or two at a community college.

    While it is probably still true that the majority of undergrads are under 21, I have come across a lot who are older, mostly because they either joined the military or (like me -- a 23yo junior) got a full-time job after high school to pay for college later. It seems to be an increasing trend to avoid massive debt from interest on tuition loans.

    While this bill doesn't address everything that should be fixed, I believe that it is a very good first step and the proverbial "foot it the door" or the "camel's nose in the tent." Some future legislation to further correct the injustice would include: 1. A rewrite to expand this bill's scope 2. Lowering of the CHP age to 18 3. Real constitutional carry that truly respects and protects God-given rights.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    By restricting this to ONLY CC in college also prevents more than HALF of the student body from defending themselves. Most college students don't turn 21 until their Junior or even Senior year of college. Why prevent those most vulnerable (those that usually live in dorms) from defending themselves? Many upperclassmen have cars, jobs and may live off-campus. Most Freshman must live in the dorms and are almost certainly under 21. Most of them are 18 at most (with the exception of a few "returning" to school after completing a military obligation).

    Just my $.02 worth with a 20-year old student in the well-known Combat Zone
    (recently voted a target-rich environment) called "ODU"...
    Well, there may be a technicality for those 18 or older. Maine issues concealed carry permits at 18. So you are "legally permitted" but it is not legal for an 18 year old to conceal in the old dominion.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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