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Thread: Shall issue proposition?

  1. #1
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    Shall issue proposition?

    http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sig...or-california/ This guy wants to get a Shall Issue Proposition on the ballot. I don't know if he is working with Cal-Guns or not. It does not look like it. I am not sure if this is the right time for this, and I think he is doing it to promote his business. I don't think most Californian's know what the definition of Shall Issue is. I think it will go down to defeat!

  2. #2
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quailman View Post
    http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sig...or-california/ This guy wants to get a Shall Issue Proposition on the ballot. I don't know if he is working with Cal-Guns or not. It does not look like it. I am not sure if this is the right time for this, and I think he is doing it to promote his business. I don't think most Californian's know what the definition of Shall Issue is. I think it will go down to defeat!
    Hopefully it will go down in flames and never qualify to get on a ballot.

    On the surface it sounds good, "shall issue". But the reality is the initiative is poorly written and will actually provide more reasons/loopholes for denying issue then exists today with regard to Good Moral Character (GMC) and Good Cause (GC). GMC and GC are well on there way to being 'fixed' here in CA.

    If by some stretch of the imagination it actually gets on a ballot....it'll go down in flames by the general voting public. At a minimum this adds fuel for the LCAV/Brady folks to scream from the mountain tops that, "The CA public has spoke...they don't want joe the plumber carrying a gun." Worst case it get used in the courtroom as an example of the 'will of the people against guns in CA'

    The worst possible scenario is that it successfully becomes law in CA. At that point CCW/LTC reform in CA is dead for the rest of our lifetimes - a ballot initiative can only be changed by another initiative or a constitutional ammendment. Basically this means we're stuck with bad law forever...

    Please do not be snowed into thinking that this initiative is a good idea - the only thing that come from it is disenfranchising an untold number of Californians from there civil rights.

  3. #3
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quailman View Post
    http://www.signature-pizza-front-sig...or-california/ This guy wants to get a Shall Issue Proposition on the ballot. I don't know if he is working with Cal-Guns or not. It does not look like it. I am not sure if this is the right time for this, and I think he is doing it to promote his business. I don't think most Californian's know what the definition of Shall Issue is. I think it will go down to defeat!
    Neither the Calguns website nor The Calguns Foundation are working on this initiative proposal. The simplest explanation as to why, is that the wording is fatally flawed and would be damaging to our desires if it were passed on the ballot. Piazza is using this as an opportunity to collect CCW supporters information to promote his business.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    I believe it is an attempt at finding a middle ground or compromise. The antis will most certainly balk at true shall issue, and of course pro 2A'rs balk at the poor wording allowing very poor interpretations of "good cause" and "good moral character". which leaves us where we are right now.

    So what could happen?

    1) Not enough signatures- ballot dies, media reports on it, probably a small victory for Anti's, not to much press.

    2)Enough Signatures - goes to ballot, a media campaign to fight for and against it, being this is Kommiefornia, it probaly wont get enough votes. probably a bigger victory for Anti's, set back for 2A rights. much more press coverage.

    3) Makes ballot and gets voted in- Highly unlikely, but the result would most likely draw a lawsuit or injunction, and/or the licensing agency will use the same subjective standards to deny permits until taken to court over it. SO like DC and Chicago they will drag their feet.

    The only way this intiative could help is if it got reworded, reciprocity was included would be a great start. Then it could be based on at least one other state that has some fairness in its issuing rules. Florida as an example. But somehow I dont think that will happen.

    but then again we are dealing with the uneducated masses, who knows what might happen...
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