Open Carrying in Vehicle without a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) - STICKY

papabear · Jan 6, 2015

I am in a turning point in my life right now . So I have stored several firearms at my pops house. While o cing one day I went to my folks and picked up my Browning lever action 22 lr. Had it leaning on the passenger seat front floor board in a leather scabbard . After running many errands I soon did not pay attention to the fact my 22 rifle was sitting there. Back country King William road block. Leo ask for paperwork and then says anything ileagal in the truck any firearms etc. My d ass not thinking says I am ocing on my side . He says is that it I begin to say no and he says how about that rifle scabbart . Boom thought I was in for it . Nope . I explained my situation and he said okay , have a nice day. Just to show Not always a bad situation.

Next situation , got stopped for a taillight out . Kept my hands on the wheel informed the female leo that I had my firearm strapped to my right side and i had no intention of illeagal use or harm to any law enforcement officer.

She quite politely said , Thank You for telling me that. Next thing you know we are talking about college football and no ticket. And she was a State Leo . Some good ones out there in blue.

marshaul · Jan 16, 2015

Question: how would a retention holster not qualify for the "secure container" exemption?

The Truth · Jan 16, 2015

marshaul said:
Question: how would a retention holster not qualify for the "secure container" exemption?

You mean a retention holster say... on your passenger seat? Under the seat?

Grapeshot · Jan 16, 2015

marshaul said:
Question: how would a retention holster not qualify for the "secure container" exemption?

Because that was neither the intent of the legislature, nor supported by a decision of a court of record.

How secure is a container that only requires a single action to remove it? IMHO - not unlike placing a handgun in an open top box and saying it is "secured."

marshaul · Jan 16, 2015

Grapeshot said:
Because that was neither the intent of the legislature, nor supported by a decision of a court of record.

It seems the court of record is pretty clear that "secure" just means latched, and I think the meaning of "container" is clear.

If a backpack qualifies, then why not a fanny pack? And if a fanny pack qualifies, why not something like this:

And if that qualifies, it's hard to see how a flap holster (for instance) is substantively functionally different. Adding a belt loop does make it easy for the container to be in reach, but that's not in conflict with the law, according to The Cooch himself.

What if I put belt loops on one of these, and wore it on my belt (only in my car, of course):

How would that not qualify? And since it doesn't have to be locked, how again is that functionally substantively different from a flap holster?

Lastly, how exactly is a flap holster not a "secure container", and not ipso facto covered by legislative intent?

How secure is a container that only requires a single action to remove it? IMHO - not unlike placing a handgun in an open top box and saying it is "secured."

What I consider a "retention holster" requires at least two actions: disabling the retention, and removing the pistol. I'm thinking thumb breaks and flap holsters here.

I have a glove box, so these are purely intellectual exercises for me. But so far I don't find your answer satisfying.

Grapeshot · Jan 16, 2015

marshaul said:
--snipped--

I have a glove box, so these are purely intellectual exercises for me. But so far I don't find your answer satisfying.

You may volunteer to be a test case......maybe in Henrico.

There are those that will contribute to your defense.

user · Jan 16, 2015

marshaul said:
Question: how would a retention holster not qualify for the "secure container" exemption?

The simple answer is that there is no "secure container exemption".

... 10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel; ...

Virginia Code § 18.2-30

So you could try it, and then have the possible defense that the flap-holster or the holster with a retention mechanism is a "container or compartment", and I'd be happy to try it for you, given enough money. But I'd probably recommend trying for a plea deal first, because I think you'd be headed out the side door of the courtroom when you leave, not the way you came in.

The Truth · Jan 16, 2015

user said:
The simple answer is that there is no "secure container exemption".

Virginia Code § 18.2-30

So you could try it, and then have the possible defense that the flap-holster or the holster with a retention mechanism is a "container or compartment", and I'd be happy to try it for you, given enough money. But I'd probably recommend trying for a plea deal first, because I think you'd be headed out the side door of the courtroom when you leave, not the way you came in.

You believe he would be arrested and sentenced to time for not having his pistol in the glovebox?

I always keep a gun rug in my center console so that when I'm not carrying it's actually inside of a lockable gun rug AND my center console, although I never lock the rug. Also, given what happened to scouser, I never move my pistol from my holster to ANYWHERE else without being inside of a gun rug. It's just not worth the hassle of people seeing a scary redneck-looking guy with a gun and bearing ignorant witness to the cops.

user · Jan 17, 2015

The Truth said:
You believe he would be arrested and sentenced to time for not having his pistol in the glovebox?
...

Yes.

skidmark · Feb 10, 2015

According to user the case has been semi-sorta kicked out of being stuck in limbo. There might be progress in setting a date to hear it, and then an actual date for the hearing.

It seems Henrico has attempted to bring a PEZ dispenser to a gun fight. Actually, not even that.

Breath re-bated, tenterhooks re-set.

stay safe.

sparkman2 · May 17, 2015

Here we go again

While at work the other day, the conversation turned to carrying handguns in a vehicle and how to either store them or drive with them on your hip.
One individual stated that it was illegal to have a loaded handgun in the vehicle. He also stated that it is illegal to drive with a handgun in a holster on your hip. He then told me that he asked a LEO and this is what that person said. My first comment was "don't ask a LEO for legal advise. Their job is to enforce the law, not to interpret it."
The next individual stated that he just took a CC course and that the instructor told him that it is illegal to have a loaded gun in a vehicle. I asked where he took the course and he wouldn't tell me.
Here is what I said. The is a site called opencarry.org that has a link to a forum for the state of Virginia. Inside that forum there is a vast amount of knowledge that pertains to OC in our state, as well as links to the Virginia State Code in regards to the laws that pertain to firearms and how they are handled, transported, possessed, etc. I didn't tell them that they were wrong, but I did mention that some of the information that they were getting may not be accurate.
I OC and when I am driving, my weapon is on my hip. Yes it is in a Level 3 retention holster and it is loaded. If I come to a business that has a NG sign, I turn around get back into my truck and go to a place that doesn't have a NG sign.
I am a LAC and I do my best to make sure that I am up to date on the laws in our state, so if I am in violation of any new or current law, someone please let me know so I can correct it. I personally feel I am in compliance with the law but then again I am just dumb electrician

peter nap · May 17, 2015

I'm not sure if the last part was what you told them or asking a question but if asking, you are being completely lawful.

sparkman2 · May 17, 2015

peter nap said:
I'm not sure if the last part was what you told them or asking a question but if asking, you are being completely lawful.

I should have formed it in a question and for that I apologize. As for what I told them, I did tell them what I knew to be true and that if they didn't believe me to go to the site and look for themselves.
I was just curious because with our new Governor

took a play out of Barry's play book and signed an executive order and tried to slip something in under the radar so to speak.
Thanks for the reassurance.

va_tazdad · May 18, 2015

sparkman2 said:
While at work the other day, the conversation turned to carrying handguns in a vehicle and how to either store them or drive with them on your hip.
One individual stated that it was illegal to have a loaded handgun in the vehicle. He also stated that it is illegal to drive with a handgun in a holster on your hip. He then told me that he asked a LEO and this is what that person said. My first comment was "don't ask a LEO for legal advise. Their job is to enforce the law, not to interpret it."
The next individual stated that he just took a CC course and that the instructor told him that it is illegal to have a loaded gun in a vehicle. I asked where he took the course and he wouldn't tell me.
Here is what I said. The is a site called opencarry.org that has a link to a forum for the state of Virginia. Inside that forum there is a vast amount of knowledge that pertains to OC in our state, as well as links to the Virginia State Code in regards to the laws that pertain to firearms and how they are handled, transported, possessed, etc. I didn't tell them that they were wrong, but I did mention that some of the information that they were getting may not be accurate.
I OC and when I am driving, my weapon is on my hip. Yes it is in a Level 3 retention holster and it is loaded. If I come to a business that has a NG sign, I turn around get back into my truck and go to a place that doesn't have a NG sign.
I am a LAC and I do my best to make sure that I am up to date on the laws in our state, so if I am in violation of any new or current law, someone please let me know so I can correct it. I personally feel I am in compliance with the law but then again I am just dumb electrician

LOL I don't know where your co-worker took their course, but they should demand their money back due to having an uneducated idiot for an instructor. As to the cop's alleged comment, never ask a cop about the law. As stated, you are a LAC.

va_tazdad · May 18, 2015

sparkman2 said:
I should have formed it in a question and for that I apologize. As for what I told them, I did tell them what I knew to be true and that if they didn't believe me to go to the site and look for themselves.
I was just curious because with our new Governor took a play out of Barry's play book and signed an executive order and tried to slip something in under the radar so to speak.
Thanks for the reassurance.

TMac or McAuffle as he is also known, does NOT have quite the same ability or authority with his "executive orders" as NObama does.

(THANK GOD) ;>)

TFred · Sep 10, 2015

"unsecured compartment"

Today's Crime Report from the Fredericksburg Police Department.

It would be interesting to know the details on this one.

TFred

Bryan Berryman, 24, of Partlow, Virginia was arrested on a charge of concealing a firearm in an unsecured compartment. Berryman was released on a summons."

Grapeshot · Sep 10, 2015

TFred said:
Today's Crime Report from the Fredericksburg Police Department.

It would be interesting to know the details on this one.

TFred

Bryan Berryman, 24, of Partlow, Virginia was arrested on a charge of concealing a firearm in an unsecured compartment. Berryman was released on a summons."

Indeed, particularly so.

The Truth · Sep 10, 2015

TFred said:
Today's Crime Report from the Fredericksburg Police Department.

It would be interesting to know the details on this one.

TFred

Bryan Berryman, 24, of Partlow, Virginia was arrested on a charge of concealing a firearm in an unsecured compartment. Berryman was released on a summons."

Very interesting. I'll be looking out for info. When is the time to dig for details? FOIA request?

TFred · Sep 10, 2015

The Truth said:
Very interesting. I'll be looking out for info. When is the time to dig for details? FOIA request?

Not sure this link will work. Looks like arraignment is next Thursday at 8:30 AM.

TFred

ETA: As I feared, they use some sort of a short-term key for their search results. You have to go to the District Court page and search on the defendant's last name. He's no stranger to the system!

user · Sep 10, 2015

If someone in the F'burg area would be so kind, please go to the City of F'burg General District Court Clerk's office and ask to look at file number [highlight]GC 15-5652-00[/highlight], and get them to make a copy of the summons in that file. Should cost fifty cents. It's public information and everyone's entitled to get copies of public records so there's no point in answering questions like, "are you a party or an attorney in the case?" - the proper response to any such question should be, "I've asked you to make me a copy of a page from public records, for which I will pay the copying charge." You could even plop your two quarters on the counter. But look at the file, first, and use a paper clip or something to indicate the page you want copied. I'd very much like a copy of that summons. I may well show up there for the arraignment, but I want to get in touch with the defendant first.

Thanks to TFred, I have that copy of the summons. I plan to get in touch with the defendant and see what he wants to do. Subject to his permission, I'll keep you posted.

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