• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open Carrying in Vehicle without a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) - STICKY

JesterP99

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Richmond, Va
I know it has probably been asked before, but through my search for vehicle, I found nothing related to Virginia on the forums.

My question is this, If you are open carrying a gun, and you do not have a CHP, where are you allowed to keep the firearm so it is still "in plain sight"?

Jay told me today that he just keeps it on his side, now I didn't get to see him carrying it while seated in his car, but from my experience, the gun tends to be hidden by the seat belt buckle or my jacket and isn't completely "in plain sight."

Now, maybe I am wrong and it is still visible due to part of the slide sticking out, or what not, but should I just practice removing the gun from my holster and putting it on my dash? Where else can I put it in my car without a CHP? If my glove box doesn't lock, can I still put it in there?

Thanks for your help.

And thank you Jay for meeting with me today. Same to you Agent19, too bad we left as you were getting there.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I wish the ADMN would make the answers to this sticky.


First, you CAN conceal it in a secured (not necessarily locked) container... Gove box, console, backpack, Etc.
Second. If the gun is openly carried when you step out of the car, the same carry is open in the car. It's NEVER visible from 360 degrees regardless of where you are.

Third, welcome to the site and

Fourth, expect a million other replies and opinions.:uhoh:
 
Last edited:

DJEEPER

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
407
Location
Yorktown, ,
Opinion #2: peter nap is the hammer and this topic is the nail in the coffin.

OC properly around, get in car.... still OC. I would MUCH rather have my sidearm holstered on my side or under my arm than have it around the car somewhere. just my preference.
 

JesterP99

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Richmond, Va
So, if I understand you guys right, you are saying that even though I don't have a CHP, even if the weapon is not visible due to seatbelt, I can still keep it holstered?
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
So, if I understand you guys right, you are saying that even though I don't have a CHP, even if the weapon is not visible due to seatbelt, I can still keep it holstered?

Yes, that is exactly what is being said. If you are OCing outside of the car and you get in the car you are still open carrying. As Peter noted, the gun is never going to be visible from every side of the car but you are still OCing so you are good to go. Yes, you can keep it holsteredz And no, you don't have to notify the police that you are carrying if pulled over.
 
Last edited:

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
I wish the ADMN would make the answers to this sticky.


First, you CAN conceal it in a secured (not necessarily locked) container... Gove box, console, backpack, Etc.
Second. If the gun is openly carried when you step out of the car, the same carry is open in the car. It's NEVER visible from 360 degrees regardless of where you are.

Third, welcome to the site and

Fourth, expect a million other replies and opinions.:uhoh:


1+
OP, did you see my firearm this morning and how I was carrying it?
I no longer have a valid CHP.
Oh yeah, it was nice meeting you this morning even if it was only briefly.
I noticed you were shivering there at one point.

Remember, the police can and do arrest folks for all kinds of legal activity, don't let that stop you from doing what is legal.
 

JesterP99

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Richmond, Va
1+
OP, did you see my firearm this morning and how I was carrying it?
I no longer have a valid CHP.
Oh yeah, it was nice meeting you this morning even if it was only briefly.
I noticed you were shivering there at one point.

Remember, the police can and do arrest folks for all kinds of legal activity, don't let that stop you from doing what is legal.

Actually, I didn't see your gun, I guess I never looked on your right side. And yes, I was cold, I get cold fairly quickly.

First, you CAN conceal it in a secured (not necessarily locked) container... Gove box, console, backpack, Etc.

Are you saying that I can keep it in my glove box, whether I have my CHP or not?
 

Wolf_shadow

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
1,215
Location
Accomac, Virginia, USA

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
The whole coat/seatbelt thing is quite squrimy, IMHO. And as noted, any LEO can arrest you for anything they want, without regard to the facts that support or do not support the arrest.

One common thing that is often said is that it's not concealed if the LEO took the time and trouble to LOOK for it. And as just recently posted, if it's OC before you get in, then it's OC while you're in...

But there are situations for which that may not be true. I would imagine that there are some coats or jackets or even untucked shirts that would be OC outside standing up, but sitting down in a car, they may cover the gun completely. That would seem to be one example of CC inside, even if not outside.

The rule of thumb I would use would be closer to the "if someone LOOKED for it, could they see it?" At least that would give you the benefit of asking the arresting LEO in front of the judge, "How did you know I was carrying a concealed handgun?" As long as they don't lie, anything even close to "I saw it..." should be the end of the case. In a perfect world....

TFred
 

Jonesy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Good advice by all in this thread. I carry in my right side holster, and leave it there when driving. When I am driving it may not be visibile to officer due to seatbelt and console, so an officer could try to make an issue of this. If you want to be safe, if you are pulled over, put gun on passenger seat before officer approaches vehicle, preferably in holster. However, this may make it more likely officer will take weapon for "officer safety" and then run your serial number. Hopefully, the constitutional carry bill will eliminate this problem.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
IIRC (someone cite please?) there is one documented case of an OCer being arrested for being "concealed" in a car and it was thrown out of court.

Dan (User) defended that case. The Commonwealth asked for dismissal after Dan enlightened him.
 

Jay

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
307
Location
Charlottesville, VA
If you want to be safe, if you are pulled over, put gun on passenger seat before officer approaches vehicle, preferably in holster. However, this may make it more likely officer will take weapon for "officer safety" and then run your serial number. Hopefully, the constitutional carry bill will eliminate this problem.


This is absolutely the (please do not be offended) stupidest advice to give. Never ever ever handle your firearm when an officer is stopping/approaching the vehicle. There is nothing wrong with leaving a holstered gun on your hip in an OC fashion without a CHP when you are sitting in your vehicle doesn't matter if the OC'd firearm is blocked by a seatbelt console (If you were to step out of your vehicle is it still OC'ing?? If it is then you are good to drive that way). This has already been visited in court and thrown out.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
Two of the best argument examples I have seen are these.

You are standing in front of a magazine display, looks through a few periodicals when an LEO approaches on your weak side. Obviously he cannot see your sidearm. A few moments later, your turn to leave and he now sees it. Was it "hidden from common observation" when he first approached? Of course not.

You enter a restaurant and are directed to a booth table. You slide in, strong side to the wall and proceed to enjoy your meal. Your sidearm is not visible to anyone while you are sitting in the booth. Is it "hidden from common observaton"? Yes it is but was it a deliberate act? Probably not.

In these two instances, your sidearm was not visible to people on the other side of your person. But are you concealing the firearm or is it incidental?

Sitting in your car with a firearm on your side and without a part of your clothing or something else covering it still constitutes open carry. Now if you were to put a book, newspaper, magazine, or a towel over it, yes you would be concealing it. So just have it on your side, openly visible as you normally would and when you enter your vehicle, buckle up and don't worry about simple incidentals, like seat belts or center consoles. FWIW, I wrap my seat belt behind my sidearm's grip so that the gun is unencumbered by the seat belt should I have to get to it quickly. This also makes the grip and rear part of the gun more visible by chance.
 
Last edited:

Jonesy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
This is absolutely the (please do not be offended) stupidest advice to give. Never ever ever handle your firearm when an officer is stopping/approaching the vehicle. There is nothing wrong with leaving a holstered gun on your hip in an OC fashion without a CHP when you are sitting in your vehicle doesn't matter if the OC'd firearm is blocked by a seatbelt console (If you were to step out of your vehicle is it still OC'ing?? If it is then you are good to drive that way). This has already been visited in court and thrown out.

I did not suggest to do this when the officer is approaching the vehicle, that would obviously be dangerous or "stupid" as you would say. But I can easily do this before the officer exits his vehicle or before I even stop. One time I got pulled over and locked it in my center console before I even stopped and well before officer left his vehicle. I was a little unsure at that time of oc in vehicle, but now just leave it on my hip.

Since you say it has been visited and thrown out in court, please provide a cite, I want to be enlightened.
 
Last edited:

Jay

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
307
Location
Charlottesville, VA
But I can easily do this before the officer exits his vehicle or before I even stop.
Since you say it has been visited and thrown out in court, please provide a cite, I want to be enlightened.


I would not even do it at any point of the traffic stop regardless if the officer is out of the vehicle or not. Trust me when a cop is pulling you over he is watching everything you are doing. Even if he can't see the gun he can tell if you are doing something that no normal person would be doing. How many people do you think would hide there drugs before the cop gets out of his/her car but the cop knows darn well what they are doing.

As far as a cite do a search through the forum "User" is the one who represented the case and got the dismissal. I am running out the door at the moment if you do not find it send me a PM and I will locate it later.
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
I would not even do it at any point of the traffic stop regardless if the officer is out of the vehicle or not. Trust me when a cop is pulling you over he is watching everything you are doing. Even if he can't see the gun he can tell if you are doing something that no normal person would be doing. How many people do you think would hide there drugs before the cop gets out of his/her car but the cop knows darn well what they are doing.

As far as a cite do a search through the forum "User" is the one who represented the case and got the dismissal. I am running out the door at the moment if you do not find it send me a PM and I will locate it later.

^This^

Furtive hasty movements upon coming to a stop can be used as RAS (iirc) to pursue further action beyond just a ticket (having you step out, more intense "plain view" search, tricking you into "consensual" search etc... )

Just leave it on your hip, hands on the wheel, and KYBMS (Keep Your Big Mouth Shut)

Sent using tapatalk
 

JesterP99

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Richmond, Va
Now, you have it on your hip and they don't see it. You don't have to tell them, correct? And if they do see it and ask then obviously it is in plain sight because they saw to ask. I am just worried about reaching into my pocket to get my wallet with the gun right there. I would sure hate to have them jump to conclusions too quickly.
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
Now, you have it on your hip and they don't see it. You don't have to tell them, correct? And if they do see it and ask then obviously it is in plain sight because they saw to ask. I am just worried about reaching into my pocket to get my wallet with the gun right there. I would sure hate to have them jump to conclusions too quickly.

Now granted, I haven't been pulled over for a long time now, but the procedure that's been taught to me has been this...

Come to a stop, turn off vehicle, get wallet and registration/insurance out and out on dash (papers should be easy to access, either console or visor, not glove box so as to not be seen reaching across the car) put keys on dash, unbuckle and hands on wheel. All this in 5-6 seconds and wait for cop.

You have no obligation to inform the officer you are carrying, but some do anyway out of politness or respect... Or whatever reasons they have. I don't plan on doing so if I am pulled over, but it's up to you. I won't be reaching for anything, even to unbuckle to get out, so I don't anticipate anything bad happening.

Sent using tapatalk
 
Top