Detective's point of view on the OC issue

Well, this is the same guy who once told me that V-neck t-shirts were absolutely stupid and that I should burn the ones that I have. Did I listen to him? No, I went home and wore my v-neck t-shirts.

But, at least he gave a reason why. At least you can say, well that is stupid because...

And, by the way, although I don't agree with his opinions, I do have to maintain a degree of professionalism and not tell him to go shove it.

So, for some of you, it was a laugh to read, and for others it was good way to argue the point that OC is not a problem.

The detective's "professional opinion' reminded me of comedian Ron White's comment to his Brother In Law.

"Next time you have a thought,....... let it go."

Professional gunfighter


lulz!

If police are professional gunfighters then the standards to being a professional are extremely low.

IMO the vast majority of police are sub-par shooters. I see lots of police at a local range and I am very disappointed in their shooting prowess, or lack there of. there are a couple of superb shooters but they are the exception rather than the norm.

Phoenix David said:

If police are professional gunfighters then the standards to being a professional are extremely low.

IMO the vast majority of police are sub-par shooters. I see lots of police at a local range and I am very disappointed in their shooting prowess, or lack there of. there are a couple of superb shooters but they are the exception rather than the norm.

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+1

Where oh where is that article I read that compares police to civilian hit ratios? Lets just say that the police have some work to do.

I did find this:

http://actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

That still sounds high. So let's look at it in a different light. According to a study byNewsweek magazine, only 2% of civilian shootings involve an innocent person being shot (not killed). The error rate for police is 11%. What this means is that you are more than 5 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. But, when you consider that citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as do police every year, it means that, per capita, you are more than 11 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. That is as low as I can get that number.

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And this:

Cato Policy Analysis No. 284 ( http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1143&full=1 ) by Jeff Snyder states the cops are 11 times more likely to shot the wrong person than a "civilian."

paramedic70002 said:

Where oh where is that article I read that compares police to civilian hit ratios? Lets just say that the police have some work to do.

I did find this:

http://actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml



And this:

Cato Policy Analysis No. 284 ( http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1143&full=1 ) by Jeff Snyder states the cops are 11 times more likely to shot the wrong person than a "civilian."

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I like that statistic. It definitely does make cops look like the "professional gunfighters" that they are.

JesterP99 said:

From the detective's point of view, "I believe open carry is stupid because 'professional gun fighters (i.e, cops)' don't open carry when off duty. Open carry is bad because it is an invitation for someone to take it from you, and civilians are not trained in weapon retention."

What I take from his opinion. People should want to conceal carry because that is what our 'professionals' are doing. They wouldn't open carry without their badge so, neither should you. Open carry is an invitation for trouble to find you.


It was a short conversation in all, not a lot discussed other than him asking the question 'why would anyone want to open carry'. Evidently he doesn't believe that a gun can be used as a deterrent.


I thought it would be worth asking him his opinion though. Sorry the 'interview' wasn't more extensive. I can always asking other questions if anyone has them.

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OK, it was funny to read when you posted cops as "gun fighters" I doubt many ever draw their guns on the job.

I do see the detectives point because anyone who does OC can become an immediate target just like a cop in uniform. If the bad guy is even thinking that far in advance of the crime he is about to do.

I thought I did read something about a guy OCing and when he parked his car some guy jacked him for his gun when he got out. Anyone??

Glock9mmOldStyle said:

[LEOs] OC while on duty so they can defend themselves easier; whether they will admit it or not.

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+1

You got that right.

Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle

[LEOs] OC while on duty so they can defend themselves easier; whether they will admit it or not.

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marshaul said:

+1

You got that right.

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Plus for the visual deterent that it provides.

Actually I have read (no cite provided) the non-LEO gains more benfit from this than do the uniformed officers.

Yes it did provide some laughs, but it is like this, LEO's are legally allowed to lie to you at any given time. Whether you were asking for an honest answer, or opinion, it don't matter. And yes I am a proud gun owner, the constitution says that every American has the right to keep and bear arms. Did anyone only CC in the old west? Yeah I am sure some people did have an extra on them and hidden away, but for the most part, there were holsters and I would guestimate that at least 95% of people who had holsters on, had a revolver in it, proudly showing it rather than sneakly hiding it.

Virginia state constitution quotes this: "Article I, Section 13

That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people,trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state,therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

There are other OC states, NC, TN, NM are among these. And like I said, they are allowed to lie to you. If they ask to see your ID (so long as you were not in the process of commiting a crime or had just gotten done commiting one) you have the right to tell them "I don't have to produce any ID" If they tell you that you do, they are lying. But do remember this, be nice, and courteous.

I would have to agree, there are a few LEO's out there that believe they are a notch or two above the citizen, just because they wear a badge and can get gas on the taxpayers dime while their car sits there running for 45 minutes while in the vets office. Hard earned money at work right there lol. I was shocked to see the hit ratio on the baddies from citizen to cop, aren't these guys supposed to be trained to handle a firearm? I mean trained by others? Come on, if this keeps up something needs to be done.

ManInBlack said:

Cops..."professional gunfighters"?

Bwahahahahahaha!

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Grapeshot said:

Plus for the visual deterent that it provides. Actually I have read (no cite provided) the non-LEO gains more benfit from this than do the uniformed officers.

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I have always held John R. Lott Jr.'s argument in More Guns, Less Crime as the paragon epitome of subtle reasoning well defended. I would really like to study that, your citation were it ever to surface in our consciousness.

Mayhem said:

I do see the detectives point because anyone who does OC can become an immediate target just like a cop in uniform. If the bad guy is even thinking that far in advance of the crime he is about to do.

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I lost a friend to this argument. He made the same claim but oddly, for all the hullabaloo, could not present one single shred of verifiable evidence to support it.

Mayhem said:

OK, it was funny to read when you posted cops as "gun fighters" I doubt many ever draw their guns on the job.

I do see the detectives point because anyone who does OC can become an immediate target just like a cop in uniform. If the bad guy is even thinking that far in advance of the crime he is about to do.

I thought I did read something about a guy OCing and when he parked his car some guy jacked him for his gun when he got out. Anyone??

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I think you're right about doubting if many LEOs even draw their gun on their job and that's the way it should be. If you have to draw your firearm then you've already failed to use all the tools that police have available to them and their toolbox is quite large, varied, and formidable. Radios, teamwork, non-lethals, patience, pepper-spray, tactics, negotiation, calling it in and defending in place while observing and reporting.

In fact I think a team of well-educated, in-shape females are a superior form of LE presence. They have to use and be proficient at the tools. They have to qualify with firearms, including (redacted) guns.

As far as 'being a target' I think you're wrong. LEOs go into danger so yeah, OC-ers do not.

yeah the leo r verry well trained when i was arested and charged with open carry the cop wile writing the report with my gun in his had was asking me what gun was it with a puzzled look on his face. im looking at him like its the same gun u have on ur hip. the leo could not even identify a glock even tho he has a glock

sawah said:

I think you're right about doubting if many LEOs even draw their gun on their job and that's the way it should be. If you have to draw your firearm then you've already failed to use all the tools that police have available to them and their toolbox is quite large, varied, and formidable. Radios, teamwork, non-lethals, patience, pepper-spray, tactics, negotiation, calling it in and defending in place while observing and reporting.

In fact I think a team of well-educated, in-shape females are a superior form of LE presence. They have to use and be proficient at the tools. They have to qualify with firearms, including (redacted) guns.

As far as 'being a target' I think you're wrong. LEOs go into danger so yeah, OC-ers do not.

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Please show me these in-shape female cops...I want to get arrested!! haha

I am not thinking about cops doing anything special to makes them a target. It is no different than a criminal sizing up a group of people. Take out the strongest guy who can cause you problems. Citizens with firearms beat out men with muscles in my book. "If" I was a criminal about to rob a place.

Mayhem said:

I am not thinking about cops doing anything special to makes them a target. It is no different than a criminal sizing up a group of people. Take out the strongest guy who can cause you problems. Citizens with firearms beat out men with muscles in my book. "If" I was a criminal about to rob a place.

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Because, you know, criminals don't go out of their way to select weak targets. They go out of their way to find places where they can select the strongest threat to start with. Because, you know, they're all so elite at planning and executing crime.


/sarcasm

marshaul said:

Because, you know, criminals don't go out of their way to select weak targets. They go out of their way to find places where they can select the strongest threat to start with. Because, you know, they're all so elite at planning and executing crime.


/sarcasm

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:lol:

marshaul said:

Because, you know, criminals don't go out of their way to select weak targets. They go out of their way to find places where they can select the strongest threat to start with. Because, you know, they're all so elite at planning and executing crime.


/sarcasm

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Dude... no need to gets snippy.. I am talking about crooks that rush in and have little planning. ie... they go in to rob a store.... not a lone, weak, defenseless lady walking with her purse. ha-ha

If they see someone packing a gun... I am confident that person will get some extra attention. Just saying! No different as if they walk in to a 7-11 and during their crime......... the cop walks out from the cooler unaware of what is going down. They will probably shoot first at the cop and not stick around to ask questions.