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Detective's point of view on the OC issue

Mayhem

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
115
Location
Everywhere
When did I make any claim that I was trying to contribute to the discussion?

Also, as a warning so you don't waste your time ranting about it: I didn't read the rest of your post after you asked how I contributed to the discussion... so I will not be contributing to any discussion regarding the latter ~95% of your post.

I can completely understand why you would say that. {wink, wink} It is hard to defend the position that we can never be a target, huh?

And I have all the time in the world. So don't worry about me.You should probably focus more on discussing the topic instead of focusing on muckraking a member.

It kills me to see fellow OCers close their eyes and turn their heads to what they know is true.

Why is it so hard to admit that we can actually be a target? I had no idea that when I originally commented on it, that it would spark so much controversy. I only said it in passing as a reminder that we need to be vigilant. But I have discovered that some people think their openly displayed gun keeps crime at bay and criminals would never go near them. Clearly, this is not 100% true. One guy was even killed with HIS OWN GUN!

And we have now resorted to name calling. For shame!!
 

Mayhem

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
115
Location
Everywhere
And agent provocateurs, spammers, bots. Good thing about them is that it gives us an opportunity to practice our craft(s). Some make waves hoping the beach will erode. Some do it for to please the own vanity - see what I can do. Others have potential profit motivation.

None are a serious threat to our goals.

Some fellow OCers think OCing is somehow completely safe and I do not agree. We are having a discussion about it I am not sure why this is a problem. I am providing proof and they are providing their opinion. An opinion that is not backed by anything but other member's opinions.

Clearly... this is a sore subject here and some want this information to stop being discussed.

What "craft" do you practice?

Do you seriously subscribe to OCing makes you safe and you can never be a target?
 
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Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Cops..."professional gunfighters"?

Bwahahahahahaha!

I am unable to cite at this time, but I remember reading an article stating that "when under stressful situations, I.E. Gunfights, LEO are 60% less likely to hit their target."

Professional gun fighters? No.

Professional gun carriers? Yes.

Im not bashing leos here, but to put them at the level of professional gun fighters is a bit of a stretch.

And how does he know Im not trained in weapon retention?? It is my responsibility to be in full control of my weapon, so I continue to practice BJJ as I have for years. I now incorporate weapon retention in that training.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
I have proved my point with one case that you CAN become a target if you OC. Done!
You have proven that someone WAS targeted, not that carrying OC makes you a target. But I am glad to see you're a man of your word.:rolleyes:
Do you really think this can NEVER, EVER, in a MILLION years happen again? Do you really think this is the first only ONLY time a OCer had his gun taken? Please tell me you are not that naive.
I never said anything of the sort. I said there is no evidence to suggest that being OC automatically makes you a target, something you are having a very difficult time differentiating.

You are presenting a hypothesis (that open carry MAKES YOU A TARGET) and then introducing "evidence" consisting of open carriers being targeted.

Do this for me. Look up the number of UNARMED people who have been assaulted, robbed and/or killed during the same time period and tell me who is STATISTICALLY more likely to be assaulted, robbed and/or killed. I'll bet it's more than two.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Some fellow OCers think OCing is somehow completely safe and I do not agree. We are having a discussion about it I am not sure why this is a problem. I am providing proof and they are providing their opinion. An opinion that is not backed by anything but other member's opinions.

Clearly... this is a sore subject here and some want this information to stop being discussed.

What "craft" do you practice?

Do you seriously subscribe to OCing makes you safe and you can never be a target?

2rhwuvq.jpg
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
You have proven that someone WAS targeted, not that carrying OC makes you a target. But I am glad to see you're a man of your word.:rolleyes:I never said anything of the sort. I said there is no evidence to suggest that being OC automatically makes you a target, something you are having a very difficult time differentiating.

You are presenting a hypothesis (that open carry MAKES YOU A TARGET) and then introducing "evidence" consisting of open carriers being targeted.

Do this for me. Look up the number of UNARMED people who have been assaulted, robbed and/or killed during the same time period and tell me who is STATISTICALLY more likely to be assaulted, robbed and/or killed. I'll bet it's more than two.

You keep taking the bait Wylde:lol:

hand_held_hook_shadow.jpg

Why don't you save your energy for a real argument!:lol::lol:
 

curtiswr

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,133
Location
Richmond, VA, ,
I thought about quoting your reply but I figured that would imply I read it and/or cared what it contained, so here's this instead:

1zz0o0.png
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Some fellow OCers think OCing is somehow completely safe and I do not agree. We are having a discussion about it I am not sure why this is a problem. I am providing proof and they are providing their opinion. An opinion that is not backed by anything but other member's opinions.

Clearly... this is a sore subject here and some want this information to stop being discussed.

What "craft" do you practice?

Do you seriously subscribe to OCing makes you safe and you can never be a target?

Nothing is completely safe and I don't think anyone here said that. We take risks every day, we use possibility and probability to determine our actions all the time.

If your position is that a person COULD be a target for a gun grab, you win, of course, but what is the likelihood of it happing and what can one do to reduce that risk.

I think one could argue quite well that the chances of being a target of a gun grab is very low, in fact getting hit by lighting might have a greater chance. In all of the thousands of hours, days and years people have OCed in the US, we know of only one verified instance where an active OCer was targeted.

My opinion is the benefit of OCing out-weighs the very slight possibility of a gun grab. I also reduce the risk by using a good quality retention holster and awareness. All of these techniques used together reduces the chance of it happening.
 
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paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
Lets put this in perspective. According to the research done below, there are estimated to be 750-5000 lightning injuries per year. Personally I think that's a little high, but whatever.

Contrast the 750-5000 estimate to the number of known gun grabs of civilians in the USA from all time periods. What is that, 2, more or less?

So, I don't see hordes of people staying inside for fear of being struck by lightning. I assume there are probably a few unfortunate individuals diagnosed with lightning phobias.

We are aware of many people on this forum who OC frequently.

In summary, the incidence of gun grabs is "statistically irrelevant."

http://www.uic.edu/labs/lightninginjury/ltnfacts.htm

Projecting from numbers of between 75 and 150 reported deaths per year (and many do not get coded appropriately), there may be as many as 750 to 5000 injuries per year.
 

JesterP99

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Richmond, Va
Oh, by the way, there is a Richmond detective in my Paramedic class and I am certain he is not on duty while at school but when we took a break for lunch, he had to put his "off duty gun" (a Glock 30) on his belt next to his badge. Why not just carry the "on duty" gun?

I would say the hypothesis that police officers/detectives do not open carry while off duty is not completely true. I just think that when they do decide to open carry, they put their badge next to their gun so they can look like they are on duty.

My father does the same thing. He is a reserve sheriff and whenever he carries his gun, which isn't a lot for some reason, he always has his badge on his belt next to it.
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
Many PDs require their LEOs to display a badge if they OC. The idea is to not freak out the sheep. I guess they never heard of citizen OC?

Traditionally, LEOs carry smaller firearms off duty to be comfortable or discreet. Duty weapons theoretically being larger and more cumbersome. I think this is a holdover from the revolver days. 4" 357 v. snubbie. Also contrasts duty holster carry of a "combat piece" from a smaller personal protection piece IWB. Less relevant today IMO with medium to large capacity duty weapons in relatively shrunken sizes.

I'm guessing your school doesn't allow the students to carry. Was he just flaunting his special LEO superpowers?
 

JesterP99

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Richmond, Va
I'm guessing your school doesn't allow the students to carry. Was he just flaunting his special LEO superpowers?

I would say that there are rules preventing the open carry of firearms on VCU campus, and in the hospital for that matter. And as a matter of fact, yes, he was certainly just flaunting his LEO SUPER POWERS -right down to the special parking privileges because car has a blue flashing light in it.

Actually, he was sort of a jerk to me. I asked him what he was carrying, I thought it was a Glock 27, he retorted and said it was a Glock 30 in .357. Then, when I went to tell him what I carry, he plainly ignored me and walked away from me. GTFO Richmond detective.
 

Felix

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
186
Location
VA
Actually, he was sort of a jerk to me. I asked him what he was carrying, I thought it was a Glock 27, he retorted and said it was a Glock 30 in .357. Then, when I went to tell him what I carry, he plainly ignored me and walked away from me. GTFO Richmond detective.

I never ask what someone's carrying, even if I'm unsure, and I've never been asked even though I occasionally OC high-end supergrades.

Just seems to be kind of an unspoken rule among the OCers I personally know.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I never ask what someone's carrying, even if I'm unsure, and I've never been asked even though I occasionally OC high-end supergrades.

Just seems to be kind of an unspoken rule among the OCers I personally know.

Yet your signature line would indicate that you volunteer the info. :lol: :lol:

Seems perfectly normal, every day acceptable conversation to me.
 

Felix

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
186
Location
VA
Yet your signature line would indicate that you volunteer the info. :lol: :lol:

Seems perfectly normal, every day acceptable conversation to me.

Well, you didn't ask me Dale when I met you for the first time @ Lobby Day. :cool:

Guess you got me on the first...clearly I was discussing face-to-face associations but will admit I didn't specify the obvious.
 
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