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Thread: My friends FB status

  1. #1
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    My friends FB status

    I had to edit some for language but I think you'll know where and what was said.
    "Mother ****** was trying to run my pockets in the check out line at wal mart trying to take my knife off me, flashed him the old .357 and he walked Right the f*** out of the store.... downriveris going to hell can't wait to move back up north"

    And people wonder why someone would need a gun in Walmart.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    MCL 750.234(e)
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    MCL 750.234(e)
    My CPL instructor actually suggested doing something like this if in a situation where the sight of your gun would help prevent whatever was going on.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    My CPL instructor actually suggested doing something like this if in a situation where the sight of your gun would help prevent whatever was going on.
    Michigan open carry is investigating the possibility of a defensive display statute. Right now there is no lawful reason for brandishing.

    I would not take the advice of that CPL instructor. If you want your firearm to be a crime deterrent, open carry it.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I had to edit some for language but I think you'll know where and what was said.
    "Mother ****** was trying to run my pockets in the check out line at wal mart trying to take my knife off me, flashed him the old .357 and he walked Right the f*** out of the store.... downriveris going to hell can't wait to move back up north"

    And people wonder why someone would need a gun in Walmart.
    Tell your friend he just admitted to an 8 year CPL disqualifier (and 90 misdemeanor) on the world wide web. Anti-gun prosecutor would love that post. All it takes is an anti gun "friend" of his to copy his post and fire off an email to the county.

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    Sounds to me like he poorly worded it. He was being robbed! He was about to pull his gun, but didn't need to on the account that the robber fled.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy05 View Post
    Sounds to me like he poorly worded it. He was being robbed! He was about to pull his gun, but didn't need to on the account that the robber fled.
    Typically, if you are being robbed and you fear for your life so you attempt to draw your weapon but the assailant flees...wouldn't you call the police? You'd just let the murderous thief go to find another victim?
    Last edited by scot623; 01-17-2012 at 07:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Typically, if you are being robbed and you fear for your life so you attempt to draw your weapon but the assailant flees...wouldn't you call the police? You'd just let the murderous thief go to find another victim?
    Well that's a personal choice not a law.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy05 View Post
    Well that's a personal choice not a law.
    Wow, you are right, smart guy!! It's not the law. But when the other guy calls the police because you flashed your weapon...the story of your attempted robbery and fearing for your life gets harder to sell to the prosecutor because you never called the police.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Can someone rewrite the OP in English, please?
    Last edited by griffin; 01-17-2012 at 08:24 PM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Can someone rewrite the OP in English, please?
    here you go:
    Some low life tried to pickpocket my knife in the checkout line at Wal-Mart. I uncovered my [unknown make and model] .357 Magnum to show him I was armed and he left the store. Downriver is getting to be a bad place to live, I can't wait to move back up north.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

  12. #12
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Can someone rewrite the OP in English, please?

    While I was in the checkout line at Walmart someone tried to steal the knife out of my pocket. At that point I revealed I was carrying a .357 revolver. The fellow retreated from the store. Downriver is not heading in the right direction, I'm rather excited to move further north.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  13. #13
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    This is why it is best to have your audio recorder running at all times when you are armed and in public, OC or CC it doesn’t matter. As you can see, this scenario began and ended so quickly that there was no time to queue up one’s recorder. What’s more, having audio footage of the attempted robbery would make the victim less apprehensive about being accused of brandishing when calling the police.

    Also, I would argue that the likelihood of a criminal being able to get so close as to rifle through a pocket of someone who openly carries on a regular basis is remote because the OCer’s internal antennae or proximity detector would be more attuned.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by wardog4life View Post
    I Love cheeze whiz...! guy sounds like a ****** to me... Why show your firearm? Why not knock the guy out? After doing so pick up the phone and call 911? If he was being robbed?
    what if u miss? what if he knocks u out ? i think the best move is 2 show the robber u have a way 2 defend ur self 9 out of 10 they will run.then call the cops and let them earn there money.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Exclamation Gotta love facebook, THE COPS DO!

    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Tell your friend he just admitted to an 8 year CPL disqualifier (and 90 misdemeanor) on the world wide web. Anti-gun prosecutor would love that post. All it takes is an anti gun "friend" of his to copy his post and fire off an email to the county.
    Sadly you may want to tell your friend he should remove this from his page. Wayne Co is one of the most ANTI-2A!
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    My CPL instructor actually suggested doing something like this if in a situation where the sight of your gun would help prevent whatever was going on.
    A rant...........

    Let me see..... flashing a CC gun so the bad guy can see it in order to deter the crime already in progress is the special superman "element of surprise" but OC'ing so the bad guy can see it and deter the crime before it begins is silly, offensive, counterproductive, and attention whoring.

    Ok. Sure. I understand now.

    Why can't CC purists understand that when they "show" their gun for deterrence purposes then they aren't CC'ing but are taking advantage of the deterrence factor provided by OC'ing?

    Rant over.... please continue with the discussion at hand.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    A rant...........

    Let me see..... flashing a CC gun so the bad guy can see it in order to deter the crime already in progress is the special superman "element of surprise" but OC'ing so the bad guy can see it and deter the crime before it begins is silly, offensive, counterproductive, and attention whoring.

    Ok. Sure. I understand now.

    Why can't CC purists understand that when they "show" their gun for deterrence purposes then they aren't CC'ing but are taking advantage of the deterrence factor provided by OC'ing?

    Rant over.... please continue with the discussion at hand.
    Best part is, OC is legal...brandishing even for defensive purposes is not.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    That sounds like it was a bad plan. I think I would have been inclined to get some distance and yell out "security! Pick pocket! Security!" A gun fight in the checkout lanes of a Wal-Mart would be a very bad day.

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    To the OP:
    You asked me in another thread why I am so against CC, to be honest with your posts in this thread show how people that have had a class and still are not sure what the laws are, making the rest of us look bad. I am sure you won't be able to see that, but it is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    A rant...........

    Let me see..... flashing a CC gun so the bad guy can see it in order to deter the crime already in progress is the special superman "element of surprise" but OC'ing so the bad guy can see it and deter the crime before it begins is silly, offensive, counterproductive, and attention whoring.

    Ok. Sure. I understand now.

    Why can't CC purists understand that when they "show" their gun for deterrence purposes then they aren't CC'ing but are taking advantage of the deterrence factor provided by OC'ing?

    Rant over.... please continue with the discussion at hand.
    +1

  21. #21
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    It is possible, although improbable, that such a "display" could be seen as "force other than deadly force". This would require extremely favorable conditions with a Prosecutor, Judge, and Your Lawyer all being in line (along with all the planets, moon, and sun).

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 780.972
    Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.

    Sec. 2.

    (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:

    (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.

    (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.

    (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-780-972

    I believe a law like AZ's Defensive Display Law would be a good place to start from.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.R.S. §13-421
    13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

    A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

    B. This section does not apply to a person who:

    1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

    2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

    C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

    D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

    1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

    2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

    3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

  22. #22
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    A rant...........

    Let me see..... flashing a CC gun so the bad guy can see it in order to deter the crime already in progress is the special superman "element of surprise" but OC'ing so the bad guy can see it and deter the crime before it begins is silly, offensive, counterproductive, and attention whoring.

    Ok. Sure. I understand now.

    Why can't CC purists understand that when they "show" their gun for deterrence purposes then they aren't CC'ing but are taking advantage of the deterrence factor provided by OC'ing?

    Rant over.... please continue with the discussion at hand.
    I have had the same thought for a while.

    And PD I was thinking that might be a good defense too.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  23. #23
    Regular Member hopnpop's Avatar
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    Was the term "brandishing" redefined? ...Because as I understand it, he didn't brandish it, he displayed it, which I believe to be legal!! Legally speaking, as I understand it, he went from CC to OC briefly. Last I'd known, brandishing means it was unholstered/waved around in a menacing manner. Am I missing something here???
    No one has ever walked away from a gunfight complaining that he brought too much ammo.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    The definition is written in part: to wave flourish or display in an ostentatious manner.
    Ostentatious could be interpreted as drawing attention to you gun in order to intimidate.
    Many times I have seen this portion omitted when people make a reference to brandishing. It is not simply "waving" it about.
    Given the somewhat "vague" details of the full issue; it could be said he did "brandish" in order to "intimidate" the guy to cease what he was attempting.

  25. #25
    Regular Member hopnpop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    The definition is written in part: to wave flourish or display in an ostentatious manner.
    Ostentatious could be interpreted as drawing attention to you gun in order to intimidate.
    Many times I have seen this portion omitted when people make a reference to brandishing. It is not simply "waving" it about.
    Given the somewhat "vague" details of the full issue; it could be said he did "brandish" in order to "intimidate" the guy to cease what he was attempting.
    Food for thought, but I'm still thinking that so long as it wasn't unholstered, he's in the right. But again, details are a little vague. If I simply move part of my coat to expose my holstered gun, and get hit with a brandishing charge, I'd fight it tooth and nail. ...And I'm optimistic that I'd win. Just sayin.
    No one has ever walked away from a gunfight complaining that he brought too much ammo.

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