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Thread: Trying to ban firearms on Ferries

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    Trying to ban firearms on Ferries


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    That's what I started to post about but then I actually read the bill and it's just not there. The Kitsap Sun got chided in the comments section for their take on it.

    (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing in this subsection prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law;

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/6245.pdf

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    Ah thanks! tried to find the bill, but my internet is slooooooow right now

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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    Ok, so I jumped the gun on this one... It allows for legally carried firearms, sounds like they want to tack on that if there is a firearm as part of the crime that it enhances the crime, The bill actually states:


    (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing in this subsection prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law;


    SB 6245 is the bill here...

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/6245.pdf

    Although I do NOT agree with everythign in this bill, and think its a little over reaching... It sounds (to me anyway) that the firearms portion is being incorrectly reported in the media.
    Last edited by MadHatter66; 01-18-2012 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Went off half cocked...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter66 View Post
    Great... Here we go. That article says nothing to whether it is a legally carried or not. Sounds like they just want to outright ban firearms on ferries. How are legally armed people supposed to make it to places like Vashon where there is NO ALTERNATIVE to the ferry? They will be denied their rights because they ride the ferry? Are they going to use the firearms ban to stop and search vehicles more often for weapons? This article is seriously lacking... SB 6245 is the bill here...

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/6245.pdf

    Just because it has the word firearm in it doesn't mean they're trying to ban them. Must read it before jumping to conclusions.

    (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article
    9 or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing in this
    10 subsection prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe
    11 lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not
    12 otherwise prohibited by law
    ;

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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadada View Post
    Just because it has the word firearm in it doesn't mean they're trying to ban them. Must read it before jumping to conclusions.

    (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article
    9 or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing in this
    10 subsection prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe
    11 lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not
    12 otherwise prohibited by law
    ;
    Read my edit
    Last edited by MadHatter66; 01-18-2012 at 05:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter66 View Post
    Read my edit
    Appears I was hitting submit as you were submitting your edit!

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    Yep, typical poor reporting by the media.

    No no, just make the deadline guys, don't worry about context or fact checking.

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    (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid...
    Good thing there's no gasoline, air bags, or battery acid on the ferries, eh?

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    Isn't the prohibited acts generally covered under other RCWs or local ordinances ? Why do we need this law?

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Good thing there's no gasoline, air bags, or battery acid on the ferries, eh?
    I so wanna call the non emergency number, and report a crime in progress...

    'Yes, I'd like to report a crime'
    what's the crime sir?
    'Well, a law passed making explosions illegal on ferries, and there are thousands of explosions a second occurring on board'
    EXPLOSIONS?!
    'Yes ma'am, thousands a second, can I get an officer out here to arrest the person responsible?'
    What do you mean , like a bomb?
    'No, ma'am, some genius decided to dump a bunch of diesel fuel into a large compression cylinder, and it's causing explosions, with enough force to move the entire ferry'


    Totally not against the law either, as it technically IS against the law......although they probably would try to charge you with something for making them look retarded, and you'd probably have to go to court.

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    I am not sure I see this one going anywhere it sounds to much like the answer to a question no one asked. If it does get passed they will need to be very careful on the wording, the wording is going to make all the difference. What about state preemption? I will admit I do not know much about my ferry's but think WSF is owned by a privet company but still considered part of the state transportation department. Does state preemption still apply here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I am not sure I see this one going anywhere it sounds to much like the answer to a question no one asked. If it does get passed they will need to be very careful on the wording, the wording is going to make all the difference. What about state preemption? I will admit I do not know much about my ferry's but think WSF is owned by a privet company but still considered part of the state transportation department. Does state preemption still apply here?
    They are not a private company.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I am not sure I see this one going anywhere it sounds to much like the answer to a question no one asked. If it does get passed they will need to be very careful on the wording, the wording is going to make all the difference. What about state preemption? I will admit I do not know much about my ferry's but think WSF is owned by a privet company but still considered part of the state transportation department. Does state preemption still apply here?
    WSF is 100% state-owned and operated like most other public transit agencies here.

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    I so wanna call the non emergency number, and report a crime in progress...

    'Yes, I'd like to report a crime'
    what's the crime sir?
    'Well, a law passed making explosions illegal on ferries, and there are thousands of explosions a second occurring on board'
    EXPLOSIONS?!
    'Yes ma'am, thousands a second, can I get an officer out here to arrest the person responsible?'
    What do you mean , like a bomb?
    'No, ma'am, some genius decided to dump a bunch of diesel fuel into a large compression cylinder, and it's causing explosions, with enough force to move the entire ferry'


    Totally not against the law either, as it technically IS against the law......although they probably would try to charge you with something for making them look retarded, and you'd probably have to go to court.
    Well, technically that fuel isn't exploding, it's burning...kinda like gunpowder when it goes off...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    Isn't the prohibited acts generally covered under other RCWs or local ordinances ? Why do we need this law?
    Illegal weapons are already illegal on the ferries. We need this law to make them illegalerer.
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Well, technically that fuel isn't exploding, it's burning...kinda like gunpowder when it goes off...
    It's a rapid expansion of gases caused by combustion = explosion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Well, technically that fuel isn't exploding, it's burning...kinda like gunpowder when it goes off...
    Which is an explosion. What it is not doing, is detonating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    That's what I started to post about but then I actually read the bill and it's just not there. The Kitsap Sun got chided in the comments section for their take on it.

    (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing in this subsection prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law;

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Bills/Senate Bills/6245.pdf
    So, gasoline is exempt from this? I mean, how many riding gasoline containers can be accommodated on one of the ferries? How about those acid receptacles that are located inside riding gasoline containers? what about Blue Rhino tanks that are transported? Maybe other 'flammable gas/liquid' cylinders that are transported.

    Who writes these bills? A Amish lawyer?
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    The state pre-emption is why they are asking for the legislature to act. The legislature you change whatever they wish, as long as the change is constitutional.

    I don't think the Kitsap paper made a mistake, I think they reported what the WSP asked for, (They quoted the WSP Captian you know) not what the submitted act says.

    The article does reveal a couple things: First, the WSP does know what the law says about firearms on the ferry (or they would not be asking to change it) and second, they don't like the law as it is now written.

    I didn't know they had bomb sniffing dogs? (except maybe on the ferries that go to Canada) If anyone wants some "entertainment" buy a bag of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, and put a gerry can of diesel fuel in your trunk, and take it home. remove it, then go take the ferry. There will be enough of the odor left.....Be perpared to spend quite a bit of time with officer friendly and his dog. Maybe have your dog in the car too...

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    SNIP.

    I didn't know they had bomb sniffing dogs? (except maybe on the ferries that go to Canada) If anyone wants some "entertainment" buy a bag of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, and put a gerry can of diesel fuel in your trunk, and take it home. remove it, then go take the ferry. There will be enough of the odor left.....Be perpared to spend quite a bit of time with officer friendly and his dog. Maybe have your dog in the car too...
    Now that would be something to watch. :-)
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    Sounds fun, up until they get a warrant to search your property after you talk to the WSP.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Which is an explosion. What it is not doing, is detonating.
    Looking for a cite here... not the same thing... Gunpowder in a chamber doesn't explode, it burns. That's why it's a propellant and not an explosive.

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    So, gasoline is exempt from this? I mean, how many riding gasoline containers can be accommodated on one of the ferries? How about those acid receptacles that are located inside riding gasoline containers? what about Blue Rhino tanks that are transported? Maybe other 'flammable gas/liquid' cylinders that are transported.
    There are posting when you board the ferries about the limits. Something like no more than two jerry cans of no more than 6 gallons each, or propane equivalent IIRC. Supposed to be "declared" for inspection. Been across plenty of times with a jerry can in the truck bed & never had anything said to me. Don't think a tank bolted to a vehicle (like a fuel transport tank or RV propane) counts. Big trucks carrying fuel or flammable gas Ithink are prohibited on the ferries, I recall hearing something that all Whidbey's fuel deliveries have to come over the bridge according to state law. Only time I've ever seen a tanker on the ferry was when it was fueling it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I didn't know they had bomb sniffing dogs? (except maybe on the ferries that go to Canada) If anyone wants some "entertainment" buy a bag of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, and put a gerry can of diesel fuel in your trunk, and take it home. remove it, then go take the ferry. There will be enough of the odor left.....Be perpared to spend quite a bit of time with officer friendly and his dog. Maybe have your dog in the car too...
    WSP officer told me those dogs are only looking for bombs, not drugs. See them all the time. Usually the officer is somewhere off to the side playing with the dog. Being detained & questioned with legally legitimate RAS for God knows how long AND giving them reason to thoroughly search your vehicle is your idea of entertainment? Do you also enjoy trying to get thru airport security carrying gallon ziplocs full of little baggies of powdered sugar, with a first-edition Megatron toy thrown in for good measure?
    Last edited by Metalhead47; 01-19-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Lazy Legislators Cut and paste existing transit law to SB 6245

    This bill is cut and paste from RCW 9.91.025; Unlawful Transit Conduct.
    I am a frequent ferry rider on several routes and cannot fathom the need for this. I am not sure why WSP is asking for a new section in the law (that we already have), just to make it applicable to the ferry system. Do we really need this? Are these problems prevalent on the ferry system or was someone too lazy to pen a specific problem statement. I will be watching the public hearing as I am truly at a loss for words.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    This bill is cut and paste from RCW 9.91.025; Unlawful Transit Conduct.
    I am a frequent ferry rider on several routes and cannot fathom the need for this. I am not sure why WSP is asking for a new section in the law (that we already have), just to make it applicable to the ferry system. Do we really need this? Are these problems prevalent on the ferry system or was someone too lazy to pen a specific problem statement. I will be watching the public hearing as I am truly at a loss for words.

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    So the WSP and the WSF apperently know that they can't simply make administrative rules prohibiting these things, and then just eject you for trespass. That's great.

    Why can't the Employment Security Department operate under the same philosiphy? Two state agencies; one (de facto) saying it doesn't have the authority to eject people for conduct which is not prohibited by law, and another which thinks it does have such authority . . .

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I didn't know they had bomb sniffing dogs? (except maybe on the ferries that go to Canada) If anyone wants some "entertainment" buy a bag of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, and put a gerry can of diesel fuel in your trunk, and take it home. remove it, then go take the ferry. There will be enough of the odor left.....Be perpared to spend quite a bit of time with officer friendly and his dog. Maybe have your dog in the car too...
    You can get the same effect with explosive detectors by combining glycerin and any nitrate. Not necessarily in the same container, and residues work just fine. Like, for example, blowing bubbles with a little kid and then a couple days later, traveling with a used diaper bag.

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