Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: Lost a dream job on principle

  1. #1
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    544

    Lost a dream job on principle

    So, the short condensed version of the story is as follows. For the past 3 months or so I have been working as a personal trainer and business manager for an exclusive fitness center in Pittsburgh. Not exclusive snooty but exclusive pricey - $100 a week exclusive. Anyways, we were doing some remodeling that I was arranging in order to put in some pull up bars and punching bags so on an off day when there wouldn't be any clients in I swung by the gym, it was a nice day so no jacket, OCing my 1911 as I do, to check out the progress. My boss Christina was there and we went over some remodeling ideas for the place and shot the breeze for about 30 minutes until her kids showed up (10 yr olds or so). I have other errands to run so I bid them a good day and go.

    Later in the evening I get an email telling me who disrespected she felt that I carried my gun in the gym and how I didn't even cover it up when her children came - ahhh, the CHILDREN!!! - suffice it to say, I'm blown away. In her email she made it seem like I was some aberation of normal society...like i was defective. I email saying im blown away and that i really didn't feel comfortable comin in on sunday because of what she said.

    Fast forward on Tuesday when I go in and she and another trainer and I have a meeting in which I am told that if I wish to continue to work there I will have to stop Open Carrying...IN PITTSBURGH! The entire city. Here rationale was that since I represent her business that clients might feel uncomfortable with me if they saw me on the street OC'ing. I find that ridiculous though im sure there are people who would feel that way. Just like there are people who might not want to be trained by a homosexual or a black guy but would she tolerate those kind of clients? I wonder.

    Anyways, she gives me until tonight to decide whether I want to keep my job. Im not gonna lie fellas...it was tempting...until I came to my senses. This is the email I sent her...which I guess is my letter of resignation.

    Chris,

    The depth of soul searching and questioning I have done in the past 24 hours is a testament to how much I love working at the gym and for you. With that being said, I cannot in good conscience continue to be a trainer with your restriction on the manner of how I live my life and practice my patriotism.

    I asked everyone I knew, Jake, roommates, co-workers at (my other job) and to the last one they all agreed that I should capitulate and do as you ask. They all know how much I love working for you...but they aren't the ones who'd have to look at themselves in mirror and judge themselves to be a sellout of their beliefs.

    I slept very fitfully last night, tossing and turning, weighing the costs of one little self betrayal against the opportunity and potential there is. I even turned to religion to help me find a way but alas, as the book says,

    "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul."

    I grasp that you and others don't understand why this is such an important issue to me but if I were to do as you ask I would turn my back upon one of the very foundations of my being. This isn't some Army hold over thing that I can "get past" or re-evaluate. This is a firm and honestly held belief that if, for a few pieces of silver, I were to turn from would morally bankrupt me.

    And I could have lied to you. I could have said "I'll do as you ask". I could wear a coat for the rest of winter, and then after that, risk that I wouldn't run into anyone from the gym. I could do that save for 2 reasons, 1: I'd be lying about what I believe in which is just as bad as turning away from it and 2: I respect you too much to lie.

    Its funny that this came up this week, the week of Martin Luther King Jrs birthday because I had been spending time reading over things he said and things he went through and now, looking back on a thing he said I am almost ashamed that I weighed your ultimatum for so long. He said:

    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

    My principles wouldn't amount to anything and therefore would be worthless if I just tossed them aside at the first difficult decision that was forced upon me. My principles may be tossing aside the best opportunity I have had in a good long while, but that is merely a reflection of how deeply those principles run in me.

    Would you really prefer if I could simply toss them aside and do as you ask? Would that really be the kind of person you wanted in your business?

    It makes me heart sick that I have to say no to you in this matter...but it would kill the small idealistic part of me if I said yes.

    -Prophet

    She responded quickly saying that I should toss my feelings to the wind and its not who i am its who i am choosing to be.

    I knew she wouldn't understand. But I feel good and can go to bed tonight a man, and not so pariah who would sell his soul for some pieces of silver.

    And please, no bashing...she's a good boss. Just very misguided in this.

    But any thoughts pro or con would be welcomed.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Are you salaried or hourly? If the latter, you are NOT representing her in ANY WAY when you are off the clock.

    Either way, and nice lady or not, I'm thinking her request was ILLEGAL. Do you have her ultimatum in writing?
    Last edited by MAC702; 01-19-2012 at 12:49 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pocono Mountains of PA
    Posts
    138
    If as you presented it your story is true, "good boss" or not, you do of course realize you have rights. That you wish to ignore those rights and seek employment elsewhere, that to is your right.

    tyc

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    I think you did what was hard, but right. Thank you for standing up for your principles, and showing your boss (and anyone she confides in) that you will not go whatever direction the wind blows, just because it howls.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580
    Quote Originally Posted by tyc View Post
    If as you presented it your story is true, "good boss" or not, you do of course realize you have rights. That you wish to ignore those rights and seek employment elsewhere, that to is your right.

    tyc
    That does not compute. Since he is aware he has rights, he IS seeking employment elsewhere.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Are you salaried or hourly? If the latter, you are NOT representing her in ANY WAY when you are off the clock.

    Either way, and nice lady or not, I'm thinking her request was ILLEGAL. Do you have her ultimatum in writing?
    What has she done that is illegal? What law do you allege she has broken?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Plummer Id
    Posts
    67
    I congratulate you, i think what she did was wrong, specially telling you to stop oc in the entire city just so you can keep your job. I'm sure there is a job out there that would proudly have you work for them and want you to oc, might even keep their business safer. keep carrying on

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet View Post
    <snip> And please, no bashing...she's a good boss. Just very misguided in this. <snip>
    ....uh, no, she is not a good boss. Let alone a good person.

    She has demonstrated that she has little regard for you and your liberty. She used her position as your boss to extort your off-work behaviors. Her way or the highway. This is the foulest of deeds in my view. The very core of the liberal mindset.

    If I have a 'friend' such as this a friend no more they would be.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    West End - Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ....uh, no, she is not a good boss. Let alone a good person.

    She has demonstrated that she has little regard for you and your liberty. She used her position as your boss to extort your off-work behaviors. Her way or the highway. This is the foulest of deeds in my view. The very core of the liberal mindset.

    If I have a 'friend' such as this a friend no more they would be.
    +1, she may have been a good "boss" while you, in her opionion are a good person, until she found out that you excersize your rights. That in itself should negate any feelings of her being a "good boss". You handled it VERY well and expressed your thoughts wonderfully but, she's not the kind of person I would care to associate myself with. The fact that she tried to dictate what you do in your personal life is absolutely out of bounds and I'm glad you did not tolerate it. People like her are the very reason we have to Fight for our Rights and we should never have to fight for those. They belong to us, OURS, not hers to tell what to do with.

    This could be a blessing in dusguise, you'll find something else and be just as happy at some point down the road. Sleep WELL, you made a great decision.

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
    +1, she may have been a good "boss" while you, in her opinion are a good person, until she found out that you exercise your rights. That in itself should negate any feelings of her being a "good boss". You handled it VERY well and expressed your thoughts wonderfully but, she's not the kind of person I would care to associate myself with. The fact that she tried to dictate what you do in your personal life is absolutely out of bounds and I'm glad you did not tolerate it. People like her are the very reason we have to Fight for our Rights and we should never have to fight for those. They belong to us, OURS, not hers to tell what to do with.

    This could be a blessing in disguise, you'll find something else and be just as happy at some point down the road. Sleep WELL, you made a great decision.
    I get your drift.

    But, the comma after the +1 seems to indicate that you are referring to me and not Prophet....to those who are just skimming through the posts.

    I agree with you, it is a blessing and a opportunity, not a problem for Prophet. Knowing who are your friends and who are not is very important in life. The down side is the views of the circle of friends and acquaintances from the gym. Are there others with the boss's views?

    It is a difficult to weigh principals vs. friendships. I have friends who may hold opposite views from mine on certain issues but they would never attempt to impose their views on me, or else. If they attempted to do so, they would be friends no more.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    What has she done that is illegal? What law do you allege she has broken?
    I don't know the laws regarding termination but if she has broken any laws it is likely to revolve around firing or threatening to fire him for exercising his rights outside of work. This would be akin to firing someone because of their religious preference regardless of what their on duty performance is like.

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    While a court win on that grounds would be great for advancing our self defense rights, that whole 'protected class' thing keeps intruding on my thoughts.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    West End - Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    79

    @ oc...

    Sorry about that! I meant that to be directed at prophet as well as being in agreement with you, I think. Who knows what I was thinking at the time actually. I need some coffee.

  15. #15
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,968
    I bet she wished you were still there if she is every attacked in the parking lot one night. Not saying it would happen but it could, maybe she will defend herself with a "I'm unarmed leave me alone line".

    I hope you find a new job soon, with a boss that actually believes in the USA.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Fallon, NV
    Posts
    577
    I do applaud you for standing up for what you believe. I also hope you'll work it out and get hired back or get a new position very soon.

    An employer can ask you to do/not do things while on the clock. You then have a choice to follow those rules, or seek employement elsewhere. But if you're off the clock, it's should be none of their business, as long as you are obeying the laws. It seems companies can fire you for little or no reason these days.

    I don't OC at work, because it's company policy. I knew that when I accepted the position. But, when I'm not on the company's dime, it's my time to do as I wish.

    I might have offered a compromise, maybe not OC at work, but off time is none of her concern, unless you are out there representing her business.
    Last edited by FallonJeeper; 01-19-2012 at 03:36 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Operator_223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    50
    sue the bitch for 2 million dollars plus court / lawyer costs for illegal termination (under duress / extortion) she cant tell you what to do on your own time.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,510
    Prophet, I'll just say thank you for an outstanding and eloquent letter, and for holding firm to your principles.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    While a court win on that grounds would be great for advancing our self defense rights, that whole 'protected class' thing keeps intruding on my thoughts.
    It's less about being a protected class and more about trying to control your off duty time (or as someone else said, trying to extort you). I might be wrong, but to me a protected class would be where you can't fire someone because of what they so while on the job (such as taking time out of the work day to pray and being forced to pay them for that time, etc).

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    I guess you're right. Not being a lawyer, I am relying on the info put out a really long time ago, in a employment law college class regarding Title VII. If Prophet could gain standing, proving that Title VII applies to his situation, then the stage is set to place all employers on notice about infringing upon our self-defense right.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    I am guilty of using extort. See post #9.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  22. #22
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    544

    Update

    This was the email I received around 6am Thursday morning entitled "Fair offer?"

    If someone outside gym sees u and brings it up to me then I tell you and you can decide at that time to stop or we part ways.?
    I told her I can live with that (and the "brings it up to me" is to be understood that they do so negatively) and that i'd see her tonight when I came into work.

    Now, some of the positive remarks I had received here may be rescinded now that I have returned to that job but allow me to explain.

    First, I didn't hold any animosity towards her, she just over-reacted to a non-issue and she made it quite clear that she wanted me to stay. She wasn't using her stipulation as an end around to avoid firing me. I believe that when she realized that no problem currently exists and that this is a firm belief i have and not a passing fancy she weighed whether losing me was worth something that might not be an issue at all. I don't believe she was bluffing though. I truly believe that she gave it some serious consideration and realized that she may be tilting at windmills. So she might not start packing heat and joining the GOA, but this act of acceptance seems to be, at the very least, a step in the right direction.

    Secondly, this was the resolution to this issue that I would have preferred to happen from the outset. I don't need her to embrace MY beliefs, as long as she respects that i have them. And if it doesn't negatively impact her business then this is a non-issue. Of course, if clients actually start leaving the gym because they see me OC'ing out in the city then I do (since I am a business consultant by trade) understand at THAT time she may have to find a resolution by my capitulation or my termination.


    All in all I am very happy with the overall outcome of this story. I stood by my principles, I went to bed soundly and with a smile on my face, and I awoke to news that my steadfastness in what I believed would not cost me.

    Win, win.

  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    It is good that you currently retain your position at the gym.

    It is not good that any customer, real or imagined, can report their displeasure at you exercising your right, lawfully, off-hours, to your employer. If the customer is permitted to decide who is and who is not fit to work at the gym because of the employee's lawful off-hours behavior, then it may only be a matter of time. Is the boss the only one that has a problem with you exercising your right? We shall see.

    In any event, you have agreed to quit if 'a complaint' is lodged for your off-hours lawful behavior, rather than be fired for your off-hours lawful behavior. The burden is no longer on the boss, but on you.

    She wins, you lose.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  24. #24
    Regular Member Fisherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    45R
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    That does not compute. Since he is aware he has rights, he IS seeking employment elsewhere.
    Beat me to it. He's leaving because he has principles and sticks to them.

  25. #25
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Read Prophet's 'update' post again. He is not quitting.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •