• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Lost a dream job on principle

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
OC is right, you lost. She deliberately got you to volunteer to stop OC'ing if she got a complaint. Simply put, she knew she could have lost everything to a you in litigation. Though I applaud your behavior and your responses she completely manipulated you.

I have found most women are good at manipulating men....."yes dear".
 

Prophet

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
544
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
I highly doubt that. It is more likely she simply found a way to control his actions to some extent, and retain him as an employee. I don't believe there would be any solid ground to assume she would lose in court.

Gunns and wrightme you are reading something that I never intended to write. I have not, nor will I change how I carry. I won't carry in her business but as a business owner it is her right to ask that. As for OC'ing on my own time I still do that and will still do that and if someone has a problem with it and complains then I'll lose my job. No big.

And this wasn't some machination on her part to insulate her from a lawsuit. First off, I wouldn't sue over this. Secondly, PA is an at will working state that means that they can fire me for anything other than that which is protected under specific classes of people. IE fired for race, age, disability, etc.

So, gunns, unless you think that manipulation occurs if my response is anything but "F-this Im outta here" I must disagree with your thought that I was manipulated in any way. I wanted to keep working there, her knee jerk reaction was to lay out some outlandish demand, I said no. She thought it over and reconsidered and it won't be an issue until it costs her money. How that is manipulation is beyond me.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
Gunns and wrightme you are reading something that I never intended to write. I have not, nor will I change how I carry. I won't carry in her business but as a business owner it is her right to ask that. As for OC'ing on my own time I still do that and will still do that and if someone has a problem with it and complains then I'll lose my job. No big.

And this wasn't some machination on her part to insulate her from a lawsuit. First off, I wouldn't sue over this. Secondly, PA is an at will working state that means that they can fire me for anything other than that which is protected under specific classes of people. IE fired for race, age, disability, etc.

So, gunns, unless you think that manipulation occurs if my response is anything but "F-this Im outta here" I must disagree with your thought that I was manipulated in any way. I wanted to keep working there, her knee jerk reaction was to lay out some outlandish demand, I said no. She thought it over and reconsidered and it won't be an issue until it costs her money. How that is manipulation is beyond me.
+1, 2 and 3
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
There is no way to determine whether or not the complaint is real, in whole, or that the complaint is a 'either/or else' situation for the business owner. A harmless 'I don't like' comment from a customer does not mean that the customer will stop doing business. The owner is placed in the position of eliciting a qualifying statement from the customer, or to blow it off if the 'either/or else' statement is not made.

It would be nice to know which way the owner will go in that hypothetical situation.

Your continued employment is good.

The termination, if it happens, is bad, because the reason for termination could be held against you by a future employer. Even a simple termination for cause, or a some other uninformative response is still bad.

A future employer, hypothetically, would/could ask why you were terminated. There is no right answer other than the truth, you were terminated because you OC on your own time, because that is why you 'were' terminated.....wait, you quit, because you agreed to quit vs. being terminated. So, why did you quit? Once again, no right answer other than the truth, you OC in your off time.

Tough situation if it happens.
Good luck.
 

brlong23

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
As for OC'ing on my own time I still do that and will still do that and if someone has a problem with it and complains then I'll lose my job. No big.

How is it not a big deal for you to lose your job for legally exercising your rights as an American? You know who else tried infringing on peoples rights by giving ultimatums? Some guy named Hitler. People are so quick to push a side their beliefs for fear of how it makes someone else feel because it's "no big deal" until they look one day and realize that it was indeed, a very big deal after they lose their right entirely.


And this wasn't some machination on her part to insulate her from a lawsuit. First off, I wouldn't sue over this. Secondly, PA is an at will working state that means that they can fire me for anything other than that which is protected under specific classes of people. IE fired for race, age, disability, etc.

I admire you standing by your convictions in your email but the fact that you then relented by agreeing that if she receives a complaint, you will be fired seems to go against the very principles you stood by initially.

What you should have said is that you understand her not wanting you to OC at the work place and as the manager/owner of that establishment, she has the right to request that and that you will abide by her request. However, she does not have the right to request you not to OC outside of the work place and that her doing so infringes on your 2nd Amendment rights. She should also be made aware that if she chooses to terminate you based on her groundless claim that someone seeing you out in town OC'ing may cause her to lose business, that you would have no other choice but to pursue legal recourse against her and her establishment. I imagine she'll take keeping you and losing a client at $100 a week vs. firing you and losing everything she owns.

Last time I checked, your employer's beliefs didn't supercede the Constitution of the United States.

Finally, lets put this into a different social context to see if it makes sense? For the sake of argument, what if she had come to you and said, "I don't like the fact that outside of work, you go to church. I find it offensive and if one of my clients see's you entering a church, they may take offense and that will cause me to lose business. So you need to stop going to church or you will be fired."

2nd Amendment - A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

So go ahead and give up your rights...let me know how that works out for you!
 
Last edited:

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
Prophet:

Just wanted to jump in and commend you for your well-crafted letter.

You made some excellent points that we all needed to read.
 

Red Dawg

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Eastern VA, with too many people
Prophet gets to do what he wants in his free time. IF someone complained, then he and she will cross that bridge when they get to it. Why worry right now. He is standing up for his beliefs, and she is stating her requirement for not OCing at work. It's a small amount of diplomacy. He hasn't given up his rights. He may turn her opinion in the near future, and have an ally. He now has a chance to slowly educate her, and she may tell the complaintant to pack sand 2 months from now. He likes, and needed the job. She needs and likes him.. Think what you want, but I have to say, all is well that ends well, RIGHT NOW!!
 
Top