What Way is Better?

Now I know we can LOC here with one in the pipe but here's my question: since I'm trained on how to handle a fully-rocking M16, M4 & M9, I know what it's like to be "fully rolling", is it better to have one in the chamber with my G19 or do I leave it empty but full-mag'd in the well?

Any and all opinions welcome...

DooFster said:

Now I know we can LOC here with one in the pipe but here's my question: since I'm trained on how to handle a fully-rocking M16, M4 & M9, I know what it's like to be "fully rolling", is it better to have one in the chamber with my G19 or do I leave it empty but full-mag'd in the well?

Any and all opinions welcome...

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Well I always carry with one in the pipe. For 2 reasons, 1. that second it takes to chamber a round is precious when it's needed and 2. a mugger doesn't run around with an empty chamber.

I don't see the advantage of an empty chamber.

A long gun however, in Nevada, cannot have a loaded chamber while in a vehicle.

My answer is carry what ever you're comfortable with. If the concern is about the Glock itself, thousands upon thousands of people and police carry Glocks chambered and ready to rock, it's really a non-issue.

I wouldn't trust that trigger tab as the only safety on a loaded pistol. Some of the early ones were prone to firing when the slide was impacted from the side.

This means that I would not consider the Glock as a social pistol, and if REQUIRED to carry it, would keep the chamber empty, using the Israeli Draw to get it into action.

That said, there are thousands upon thousands of people who carry the Glock with a loaded chamber, and never have a problem, so the odds of you having a problem are miniscule, if you carry in a holster that covers the trigger guard.

2A

Absolutely. Also, if you've been hit already, and can't pull the slide back... it will be too late.

Personally, I would only ever carry with a round chambered and the gun ready to go.

When I was a reserve officer at a department in California, the depart issue gun was a Colt .45 1911. I remember fearing that gun, because I saw the hammer back over a chambered round. I didn't want to carry it. There was just something about that configuration that bothered me.

Instead, I carried my own S&W .357 revolver. We were only allowed to carry 38+P ammo with the .357 though. My partner also carried a revolver. He eventually got a .45 cal revolver, though.

One of our officers had his holstered 1911 discharge on him when he bumped against a car; this just confirmed my fears about carrying the 1911 config. , even though I currently have no problem with carrying a chambered round in my Kahr (now my M&P9 compact).

Except for a few weeks when I first started to carry and was still unsure of myself so I carried without when in the pipe until I built self-confidence, I have carried chambered for several years now. Mostly carried an XD and now primarly a 1911 cocked & locked. The vast majority of modern sidearms are well designed to only go bang when the trigger is pulled. Carry in a decent holster that fully covers the trigger is therefore pretty darn safe from any AD.

Everything I have read and seen about using a firearm for self-defense on the steet is that everything often happens quite quickly. With the stress of such a situation, the mental processing to make a fight/flight/comply decision, etc I do not want the added stress of self-defense tool status worries. Carrying chambered just removes one more thing I need to worry about.

DVC said:

I wouldn't trust that trigger tab as the only safety on a loaded pistol. Some of the early ones were prone to firing when the slide was impacted from the side.

This means that I would not consider the Glock as a social pistol, and if REQUIRED to carry it, would keep the chamber empty, using the Israeli Draw to get it into action.

That said, there are thousands upon thousands of people who carry the Glock with a loaded chamber, and never have a problem, so the odds of you having a problem are miniscule, if you carry in a holster that covers the trigger guard.

Click to expand...

I think any gun carried should be in a holster that blocks the trigger. And the trigger tab is not the only safety on a Glock... There is a firing pin block that only releases when the trigger is pulled, so as long as any Glock user keeps their finger off the trigger it won't go off.

ed2276 said:

One of our officers had his holstered 1911 discharge on him when he bumped against a car; this just confirmed my fears about carrying the 1911 config.

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I'd like to read the report on that. That's the same thing that happened to some of the early Glocks.

Since the 1911 firing pin is spring-loaded away from the primer, it would have to be a hammer-drop or something got into the recess where the firing pin is and pressed on it sharply enough to drive it into the primer and make a spark.

I'm going to predict that he had an over-gunsmithed sear, which not only disengaged from the hammer but let the half-cock notch bounce it out of the way. In the case of the Glocks, I think they found the sears were not fully engaging. In either case, a sharp impact against the side of the slide can cause the failure.

"Everyone who carries on an empty chamber and survived their encounter will gladly confirm that they've had time to pull and rack their weapon.
.
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"Those that didn't have time to pull and rack won't say anything to counter that....They're too busy being dead."

Can you absolutely guarantee that you'll always have two hands free?
Can you guarantee that your wife, lover, sister, steady squeeze won't clamp down on one arm with the determination of an angry bear if they are frightened?
Can you guarantee that you'll never carry anything that you'll want to set down gently?
Can you guarantee no pets on a leash, lunging at the attacker or running with tail between its legs?
Can you guarantee that no attacker will ever pin the arm you'll want to rack your weapon with?
Can you guarantee that no attacker will ever wound the arm you'd be using to rack your weapon with?
Can you guarantee that you'll never carry your precious daughter or handsome son in your arms, ever, lest you lose the arm that might save their lives?
Can you guarantee that....?


Life is full of risks, the secret lies in minimizing them. In your opinion, does an empty chamber minimize your risks?

Fallschirmjäger said:

Life is full of risks, the secret lies in minimizing them. In your opinion, does an empty chamber minimize your risks?

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It would be better to ask WHICH risks you prefer to minimize.

The recent gnomes v. ninjas example fits perfectly.

Solve the issue with a modern DA revolver...

TBG

Thanks for your inputs everyone... I wasn't quite sure what was smarter. ...and I'm still working on the self confidence thing so as I go along with LOC I will lock and load...

When the goblin comes, is there anyone who thinks the goblin is going to stop the individual he's about to mug and Then chamber a round, or is he going to already be prepared for his victim by already being locked and loaded?
If some mook is smart enough to be prepared, shouldn't we be?

DooFster said:

Thanks for your inputs everyone... I wasn't quite sure what was smarter. ...and I'm still working on the self confidence thing so as I go along with LOC I will lock and load...

Click to expand...

As I alluded above, I too had the self-confidence issue when I started carrying. My first carry sidearm was an XD which is also striker fired like the Glock. To build self-confidence, what I did was carry it cocked, with a loaded magazine, but unchambered for a while. Nightly I would check that it was still cocked, ie that I hadn't somehow "discharged" it during the day's carry. After a few weeks of never having an ND (on an empty chamber so I didn't hurt myself or someone else) I felt confident in carrying it chambered. I wasn't worried about the quality of the XDs design or passive safeties, but rather not yet confident that my carry method, pistol handling, holster, etc were sufficient to prevent an terrible accident. That self-confidence goes a long way towards comfort with carrying OC or CC.

Another issue this thread has brought up is chambering the sidearm with one hand. This is a skill which, IMO, we should all know (and another reason to own snap caps for your carry sidearm). I practice this with all sidearms I carry, and re-train myself if I change sights. While one handed slide operation is not as fast as doing it 2 handed with an Israeli draw or otherwise, it could be a handy thing to know. To argue that a wounded strong side arm takes you out of the fight with a condition 3 sidearm as some above seem to allude is not only inaccurate, but defeatist.

I'm going to have to do some personal re-education for the new pistol I bought as the low-profile, countoured sights probably won't give enough purchase for the technique I have typically used.

What are the different conditions of carrying?

Condition 1: Ready To Rock

In Condition One, the pistol has a cartridge in the chamber and a full magazine inserted into the magazine well, and ready to fire. This state of readiness occurs just prior to firing the gun.

Condition 2: Dangerous And Awkward

In Condition Two, the pistol has a cartridge in the chamber and a full magazine in place. Glocks cannot be carried in Condition Two as they have no external hammer. When a 1911 is carried in Condition Two, the thumb safety is off and the hammer is down. The grip safety is still in place but does not come into play until the hammer is brought back for firing.

Condition 3: Full magazine, nothing in the chamber

In Condition Three the chamber is empty and a full magazine is in place in the magazine well. Condition Three is applicable in both the 1911 and Glock systems and is a common method of carry for military organizations around the world.


I pulled these definitions from the internet, not necessarily my opinion.

I believe the following in Jeff Cooper's original carry conditions - if I'm wrong someone will be along shortly to corret me (yes I copied this from teh interwebs but it matches my memory and I was being too lazy to write it out myself). IIRC, this was developed re the traditional 1911. Some modern weapons, such as Glock/XD cannnot be in condition 2 and others, such as a Sig P-series with a de-cocker are designed to be carried in Condition 2 which is dangerous with a traditional 1911. What may be a dangerous condition for one particular firearm, may be the intended/desireable carry condition for another.

Conditions of firearm carry:

Condition 0. The chamber is loaded, the gun is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1. The chamber is loaded, the gun is cocked, and the safety is on.
Condition 2. The chamber is loaded and the hammer is down
Condition 3. The chamber is empty and the magazine is loaded
Condition 4. The chamber is empty, the hammer is down, no magazine