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Thread: NYPD, Feds Testing Gun-Scanning Technology, But Civil Liberties Groups Up In Arms

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    Regular Member deniedmyrights's Avatar
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    NYPD, Feds Testing Gun-Scanning Technology, But Civil Liberties Groups Up In Arms

    I have a few issues with this article. I wonder if anyone else see's what I see? Let me know? Here are my issues.

    These are excerpts from the article. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/01/...ng-technology/

    "The NYPD is stepping up their war against illegal guns, with a new tool that could detect weapons on someone as they walk down the street."

    There is a war against illegal guns? The average fluoride head reading this would think that all guns are illegal. They imply that there is a war! The average fluoride head associates that with we need military force to deal with this.


    “I think it’s good. People will be safer and it will be a safer environment,” Jessica Ramos said.

    “If it’s going to make us safer as citizens I’m okay with that,” said Lori Sampson of Lake Ronkonkoma.

    “I think it’s all about invading people’s lives more and more and more,” Antonio Gabriel said.

    “It’s definitely a privacy issue, but it’s for our safety. So it’s just one of those things, a double-edged sword,” added Clarence Moore of Union, N.J.

    They put quotes in the article that make it seem that John Q public thinks it is OK as long as they are safer. No one questioning whether there is a war on guns. The one guy against it is only raising privacy issues. No one asking about why everyone needs to be a suspect.

    "Police Commissioner Kelly said the scanner would only be used in reasonably suspicious circumstances and could cut down on the number of stop-and-frisks on the street."

    Hey Kelly, what is reasonably suspicious circumstances? I need a definition of those circumstances.

    "People on the street have differing opinions on the price they’d be willing to pay for safety."

    Code speak for we will give up our rights in the name of keeping us SAFE. ????????????????????????

    "“I think it’s good. I think if someone has something to hide and they’re going to worry about it, who cares?” Robert McDougall added."

    This guy Robert McDougall definitely works for home land security!

    And to top it all off, the true nature of the article comes out.

    "The Department of Defense is also researching the Terahertz technology to detect suicide bombers wearing explosives."

    The D.O.F. wants to use it to detect suicide bombers. If you are not hiding a bomb then there should not be any problem with having naked body scanners on the streets of America.

    WHAT? YOU ARE AGAINST THIS? YOU MUST BE WITH THE TERRORIST!

    Just some of my thoughts.
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    Not to mention that these scanners damage DNA, but they won't tell the average Joe that.

    If NY citizens are content to believe and allow this poison, let them have it, so long as it doesn't spread to any other state. Maybe we can build a barrier between NY and the rest of the U.S., like that movie "Escape from New York".
    Last edited by PistolPackingMomma; 01-19-2012 at 03:31 PM.

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    Actually, the article is contradicting itself on the DNA thing. The scanners are passive, reading THz radiation given off by bodies. The DNA damage would be done by an active device, emitting the THz radiation itself.

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    In Kyllo v. United States, SCOTUS ruled that using passive thermal imaging equipment to scan a house without a warrant amounted to an unconstitutional search under the 4th Amendment. They overturned Kyllo's conviction for growing marijuana based on the warrantless search.

    I don't see any material difference in this case.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 01-19-2012 at 07:16 PM.

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    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    How does it go about telling the illegal ones from the legal ones?

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    Regular Member deniedmyrights's Avatar
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    Good one

    Quote Originally Posted by KYKevin View Post
    How does it go about telling the illegal ones from the legal ones?
    That is a good question for NY police department
    Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Not to mention that these scanners damage DNA, but they won't tell the average Joe that.

    If NY citizens are content to believe and allow this poison, let them have it, so long as it doesn't spread to any other state. Maybe we can build a barrier between NY and the rest of the U.S., like that movie "Escape from New York".
    The main problem is this... normally what "NYC and Californa" does... in general the rest of the country follows to a certain extent.

    I can't believe that people are buying into this over the word "safety". Its not about hiding thing... its the fact... you give up one "right"... usually a few more fall off. We will get to the point like in the 50's where the police was pretty much the "law". Once they can just "watch you" on the streets... then what's to say... "we seen you on the streets with an object... therefore, it gave us permission to come into your house to conduct this search..."

    Ok then what? Lets say this pass... now a cop(s) confirm you have a weapon... before they ask to see your CCW...they sourrnd you at gun point... you accidently make a wrong move because you where starttled and you now make the sunday's abiturary.

    Besides raising the price on ammo and guns... this is just another tact to get people to not have guns.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The fundamental flaw in the premise that NTCPD has about "illegal guns" is that there is no such thing. Guns--in and of themself--are not illegal ANYWHERE in the US anymore (at least not since Heller). POSSESSION of a gun can be regulated, and in NYC it is SEVERELY restricted, but the gun itself is not illegal.

    Saying that guns are illegal in NYC is like saying that morphine, oxycodone and lidocaine are illegal in NYC. They are not, just very tightly regulated.

    This "war on guns" is REALLY a War on Liberty, a war against Individual Responsibility, and a War AGAINST public safety. By actively disarming the law-abiding populace, the NYC government has created a giant free-fire killing field ripe for criminal control, and is actively FOSTERING wholesale unchecked criminal activity.

    Bloomberg is, essentially the "Capo di tuti capi" of a massive organized criminal enterprise,masquerading as a "government".

    The entire NYC government should be prosecuted under RICO charges, and locked up in Rikers with all the other thugs, grifters and con men in NY...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    The main problem is this... normally what "NYC and Californa" does... in general the rest of the country follows to a certain extent.
    The NY State government is paranoid, and has repeatedly demonstrated that paranoia since the passage of the "Sullivan Act" in 1911. It's failure to recognize out of state conceled carry permits, as reported in the national press, has resulted in at least two recent arrests and pending unconstitutional (as I see it) prosecutions for violation of NY statutes.
    On the Left Coast, the California State government (representative of the population at large) is overflowing with aging, left-wing, 'flower child' nutjobs! The California legislature has instituted - effective Jan 1 this year - such strict handgun laws, that it is now against the law (the same laws which criminals ignore) for honest, law-abiding citizens to openly carry even an unloaded handgun - which, unloaded, is about as effective for personal defense as a brick - in public. How do California lawmakers - even in their own marijuana-clouded minds - believe that such a law could possibly be in the public interest? All it really does is create a larger crop of potential victims for those who choose to prey on the unarmed!

    Why in the world would the rest of the country follow these examples - even "to a certain extent"? Perhaps it's because we (collectively, as a nation) tend to exhibit lemming-like behaviors in important matters, even when reason and logic tells us its wrong. Our current federal administraton is a shining example of what those behaviors will beget. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 01-21-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Not to mention that these scanners damage DNA, but they won't tell the average Joe that.
    No, they don't. Only ionizing radiation damages DNA. The radios and frequencies of the radiation used in the scanners doesn't come anywhere near the level required for ionization.

    You're more likely to damage your DNA by sticking your tongue to a 9 volt battery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    The NY State government is paranoid, and has repeatedly demonstrated that paranoia since the passage of the "Sullivan Act" in 1911. It's failure to recognize out of state conceled carry permits, as reported in the national press, has resulted in at least two recent arrests and pending unconstitutional (as I see it) prosecutions for violation of NY statutes.
    On the Left Coast, the California State government (representative of the population at large) is overflowing with aging, left-wing, 'flower child' nutjobs! The California legislature has instituted - effective Jan 1 this year - such strict handgun laws, that it is now against the law (the same laws which criminals ignore) for honest, law-abiding citizens to openly carry even an unloaded handgun - which, unloaded, is about as effective for personal defense as a brick - in public. How do California lawmakers - even in their own marijuana-clouded minds - believe that such a law could possibly be in the public interest? All it really does is create a larger crop of potential victims for those who choose to prey on the unarmed!

    Why in the world would the rest of the country follow these examples - even "to a certain extent"? Perhaps it's because we (collectively, as a nation) tend to exhibit lemming-like behaviors in important matters, even when reason and logic tells us its wrong. Our current federal administraton is a shining example of what those behaviors will beget. Pax...
    Always remember... in the business of crime...there's money to make and be earned. WHen you have stupid laws, people break them... you pay. Criminals break them... they pay. When criminals break the law at multiple times, murder etc... everyone pays. They use the info to create fear and then what... there's a "need" for more cops and "tougher" laws. now the city/state pays more in taxes for more cops, more tech, etc. And what... the crime continues. But then those areas where people are encourage to have a firearm... they are able to stop the murding act to happen. That child is saved, that woman isn't rapped... those houses are not broken into... all because certain criminals are "blown away".

    They always want you to look at the UK and how its so hard to have a gun and in many cases its illegal to have one. But no one wants to look at the Swiss. They are REQURIED to be armed... each citizen. When they leave the army, they are required to keep their gun. Because they will never be just "overtaken" by another country. But the liberals don't want you to know that. They will talk about Latin America and the drug trade and how its a "wild wild west" there... the need for a boarder and how places like the "UK" are doing so much better. Well, i have family in the UK and crime is really high there...if they don't use a "illegal" gun on you, they will beat the hell out of you or stab you to death. Come on... isn't the UK the "invetion" torture devices and pain? Hey, because of their backward ways and ill god humor... that's why our people's left the country.

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    No, they don't. Only ionizing radiation damages DNA. The radios and frequencies of the radiation used in the scanners doesn't come anywhere near the level required for ionization.

    You're more likely to damage your DNA by sticking your tongue to a 9 volt battery.
    First only those with already damaged DNA do that, lol.

    Also you are not quite being accurate. Both ionizing and non-ionizing radiation can be harmful to organism. Usually non-ionizing radiation is dangerous if it is sufficient to cause thermal damage, but we don't know all the bad effects. It can be subtle and might be cumulative.

    Unless you can test this 'device' they are using you don't have enough information to pooh-pooh it, imo. Beaming things at live people is not a 'good idea'(tm)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    ... isn't the UK the "invetion" torture devices and pain? Hey, because of their backward ways and ill god humor... that's why our people's left the country.
    What are you basing this off of?

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    Gosh folks, does anyone read the article before screaming about radiation and DNA damage?!? The article says it only detects radiation emitted by bodies and other objects - in other words, the "scanner" isn't an emitter, it's just a receiver.

    Quote Originally Posted by the article in the OP
    It’s called Terahertz Imaging Detection. It measures the energy radiating from a body up to 16 feet away, and can detect anything blocking it, like a gun.

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    Regular Member deniedmyrights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Gosh folks, does anyone read the article [/B].
    As a previous poster commented, How does the scanner know an illegal gun from a legal one?

    What about the 4th amendment?

    These and many other as I originally posted should be the real questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    What are you basing this off of?
    I was basically saying... when our people's left the UK to find a new home... they came here to America to start a new life. But you had the King etc want to impose their taxes and way of life here... American Revloution, etc.

    So, basically (I was being funny) saying... our nation need to stop compairing our way of life to other countries. But normally, when I hear about not owing a gun, they talk about the UK. But they don't look at their crime rates.

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    This isn't going to be used to look for illegal guns.

    Think about it.

    These detectors cost a fortune. The R&D costs must be big also. Imagine the labor cost of the equipment operators. Catching a few criminals with guns doesn't even come close to justifying the investment and cost. What are they gonna do, drive all over NYC only to catch an occasional illegally concealed gun? Look for terrorists hiding an AK74 under their clothes?

    No.

    This is a pilot program on the road to tyranny. After these systems are well refined and gain acceptance in the culture, they'll be used to spot armed citizens getting ready to fight back. Not too unlike the giant "heat"-emitters (radar wavelength?) for crowd control. No real justification, unless you're planning to use them on an irate citizenry.
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-24-2012 at 03:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deniedmyrights View Post
    As a previous poster commented, How does the scanner know an illegal gun from a legal one?

    What about the 4th amendment?

    These and many other as I originally posted should be the real questions.
    Exactly, that was the point I was intending to make. I edited my post to add further explanation, but apparently forgot to actually complete the edit. Derp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYKevin View Post
    How does it go about telling the illegal ones from the legal ones?
    Easy, the only legals one in NYC will have red tips, and say Matel on the side.

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    Regular Member deniedmyrights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    Easy, the only legals one in NYC will have red tips, and say Matel on the side.
    Or the only legal ones will be in the holsters of Jack Booted Government Thugs.

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever." -
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