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Thread: New gun law shoots down San Juan tradition

  1. #1
    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    New gun law shoots down San Juan tradition

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/day-3...ekes-guns.html


    New gun law shoots down San Juan tradition
    BY FRANK SHYONG
    2012-01-19 06:29:19

    On Hoos'gow Day in San Juan Capistrano, 50 people dressed as cowboys brandish guns loaded with blanks and roam the city center, throwing anyone who isn't wearing Old West attire into a mock jail.

    The annual tradition is supposed to be harmless - and a new state law banning the open carry of handguns will make it even more so.

    Excerpt ... read more at the link above

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A ECNALG View Post
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/day-3...ekes-guns.html

    The law, which took effect Jan. 1, means the antique pistols that members of the San Juan Capistrano Fiesta Association customarily carry on Hoos'gow Day can't be used, said Steve Weekes, the association's president.

    The state law exempts guns used in historical reproductions, such as those carried by participants in the annual Swallows Day Parade, scheduled for March 24. But the ban does apply to Hoos'gow Day, which is a more of an Old West homage than a historical reproduction.

    Orange County sheriff's deputies met with members of the Fiesta Association last week to explain the new rule. Sheriff's Lt. John Meyer, San Juan's chief of police services, said Hoos'gow Day can continue but participants must use replica handguns manufactured with plugged barrels. They can't convert their real guns by soldering the barrels shut.

    The Sheriff and the San Juan Capistrano Fiesta Association have failed to successsfully apply the proper exemption to their ENTERTAINMENT EVENT. See PC 26375. Clearly the non-historical homage to the 'old west' is intended to be a entertaining sideshow. The participants should carry their antique handguns as they did in the past and contact the Sheriff to let the department know that the law was (surprise) not adequately researched.

    The Sheriff aslo seems to be endorsing the exhibition of imitation firearms which is, with or without his approval, a crime in California.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Yep penal code12556 restricts the use of replica handguns ....

    Maybe the mayor of SJC should bring this to the attention of Governor moonbeam and Mr Portantino and make them re write their lame written Assembly Bill.

    "Sheriff's Lt. John Meyer, San Juan's chief of police services, said Hoos'gow Day can continue but participants must use replica handguns manufactured with plugged barrels." OMG you'd think the chief would know the law?

    Penal Code 12556
    (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
    (b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a second offense.
    (c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable as a misdemeanor.
    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
    (1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public viewing.
    (2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or restoration of the imitation firearm.
    (3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video, television, or stage production.
    (4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting event or competition.
    (5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest control activities.
    (6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private shooting ranges.
    (7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
    (8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities, including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials.
    (9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private schools or displays that are part of a museum collection.
    (10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
    (11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case.
    (12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful.
    (13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
    (e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots, automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or dwellings.
    (f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.
    Last edited by EXTREMEOPS1; 01-20-2012 at 12:17 AM.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

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    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The Sheriff and the San Juan Capistrano Fiesta Association have failed to successsfully apply the proper exemption to their ENTERTAINMENT EVENT. See PC 26375. Clearly the non-historical homage to the 'old west' is intended to be a entertaining sideshow. The participants should carry their antique handguns as they did in the past and contact the Sheriff to let the department know that the law was (surprise) not adequately researched.

    The Sheriff aslo seems to be endorsing the exhibition of imitation firearms which is, with or without his approval, a crime in California.
    Please, by all means post your observations to the Reader Comments page, The Fiesta Association http://swallowsparade.com/, City Council http://www.sanjuancapistrano.org/ and Sheriff's Dept. www.ocsd.org.

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The Sheriff and the San Juan Capistrano Fiesta Association have failed to successsfully apply the proper exemption to their ENTERTAINMENT EVENT. See PC 26375. Clearly the non-historical homage to the 'old west' is intended to be a entertaining sideshow. The participants should carry their antique handguns as they did in the past and contact the Sheriff to let the department know that the law was (surprise) not adequately researched.

    The Sheriff aslo seems to be endorsing the exhibition of imitation firearms which is, with or without his approval, a crime in California.
    +1

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Kalifornia keeps getting wourse and wourse for the normal LAC and better for the whack-jobs. Thank God there are two Disney amusment parks, this way I never have to set foot in the cespool called Kalifornia.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The Sheriff and the San Juan Capistrano Fiesta Association have failed to successsfully apply the proper exemption to their ENTERTAINMENT EVENT. See PC 26375. Clearly the non-historical homage to the 'old west' is intended to be a entertaining sideshow. The participants should carry their antique handguns as they did in the past and contact the Sheriff to let the department know that the law was (surprise) not adequately researched.

    The Sheriff aslo seems to be endorsing the exhibition of imitation firearms which is, with or without his approval, a crime in California.
    lol, pwnd.

  8. #8
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Actually, I think that bit of code allows several ways for the activities to continue...
    Penal Code 12556
    (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
    ...
    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
    ...
    (3) Used in a theatrical production
    ...
    (7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.

    (8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities
    ...
    (10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
    ...
    (e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots, automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or dwellings.
    So if the city issues a permit for the exhibition of an interactive, audience-participation theatrical production during the civic activity / free-form parade known as Hoos'gow Day, they should be covered 4 ways from Sunday.
    And no, I'm not at all surprised that the LEO doesn't know the law he's hired to enforce.
    I think that should be a very good reason to un-hire him & get someone else.


    ETA: Interesting that your state statutes consider private property - someone's front yard - to be a public place.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-21-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Actually, I think that bit of code allows several ways for the activities to continue...

    So if the city issues a permit for the exhibition of an interactive, audience-participation theatrical production during the civic activity / free-form parade known as Hoos'gow Day, they should be covered 4 ways from Sunday.
    And no, I'm not at all surprised that the LEO doesn't know the law he's hired to enforce.
    I think that should be a very good reason to un-hire him & get someone else.


    ETA: Interesting that your state statutes consider private property - someone's front yard - to be a public place.
    Hey Milwaukee Gal,

    I believe your point regarding a permitted activity is correct.

    Here is a link regarding a Kalifornian's front yard:
    http://www.sdsheriff.net/legalupdates/docs/1209.pdf

    markm

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    Long gun time

    I talked to a party that is closely involved in the San Juan tradition, and he said that they are planning long gun carry at this point for those participants that want to be armed this year. In the past, the OC sheriffs have always looked the other way for those that handgun UOC'ed because there are a several public and private schools within a few hundred feet of the downtown area and nobody ever got popped for a GFSZ violation to my knowledge. Several armed members have in the past went to Saint Marguarite's Catholic School ON CAMPUS to "arrest" participants for the "hoosegow" fundraiser. I guess the law only applies only to those that dare oppose the OC Sherriff's general population OC policy. I wish Ms Hutchens would go back to Los Angeles where she came from, and take her gun grabbing anti CCW polices with her.
    Last edited by oc4ever; 01-28-2012 at 11:48 PM.

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    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oc4ever View Post
    I talked to a party that is closely involved in the San Juan tradition, and he said that they are planning long gun carry at this point for those participants that want to be armed this year. In the past, the OC sheriffs have always looked the other way for those that handgun UOC'ed because there are a several public and private schools within a few hundred feet of the downtown area and nobody ever got popped for a GFSZ violation to my knowledge. Several armed members have in the past went to Saint Marguarite's Catholic School ON CAMPUS to "arrest" participants for the "hoosegow" fundraiser. I guess the law only applies only to those that dare oppose the OC Sherriff's general population OC policy. I wish Ms Hutchens would go back to Los Angeles where she came from, and take her gun grabbing anti CCW polices with her.
    Since the SJC City Council voted to ban unloaded open carry from its city parks (prior to AB144 being signed by Brown, and much at the behest of Charles and Mary Leigh Blek ), and I am unaware of any authority given to either the City Council or Sheriff Sandy to suspend any state law whenever the mood strikes (i.e. tourist attraction bringing in mucho $$$$), would it be unreasonable for a number of UOC proponents to attend the next City Council meeting and advise them that they will be monitoring GFSZ boundaries for violations of state law, and documenting same, including "brandishing," for possible civil/criminal (equal protection?) complaint ?

    Of course, school administrators do still have the authority to provide written approval for display of firearms within their respective GFSZ, no?
    Last edited by A ECNALG; 01-30-2012 at 01:08 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oc4ever View Post
    I talked to a party that is closely involved in the San Juan tradition, and he said that they are planning long gun carry at this point for those participants that want to be armed this year.
    So no more replicas?

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    replicia guns have almost no lawful use here

    replica guns are highly regulated in California!!! carry a loaded real firearm ( in a school zone is a felony) are misdemeanors. Go figure. No matter what, the LEO's will be happy to make sure you never see you firearm again when they snag you.


    # 12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place. (b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a second offense. (c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable as a misdemeanor. (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is: (1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public viewing. (2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or restoration of the imitation firearm. (3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video, television, or stage production. (4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting event or competition. (5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest control activities. (6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private shooting ranges. (7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government. (8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities, including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials. (9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private schools or displays that are part of a museum collection. (10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government. (11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case. (12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful. (13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent. (e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots, automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or dwellings. (f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.
    Last edited by oc4ever; 01-29-2012 at 08:30 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    So anyone know the outcome of all this?

    Quote Originally Posted by A ECNALG View Post
    Please, by all means post your observations to the Reader Comments page, The Fiesta Association http://swallowsparade.com/, City Council http://www.sanjuancapistrano.org/ and Sheriff's Dept. www.ocsd.org.
    Did the show go on ? Was anyone able to get permits? Or was it a total wash / non carry event? Just wondering if there was any follow up to this story? News media info on the day ?
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    Did the show go on ? Was anyone able to get permits? Or was it a total wash / non carry event? Just wondering if there was any follow up to this story? News media info on the day ?
    Answer to this is in the newspaper article...

    Hoos'gow Day, which this year is scheduled for March 23, is one of the highlights of the city's annual Fiesta de las Golondrinas, or Swallows Festival, which celebrates the traditional return of migrating swallows from Argentina.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    OK so did anyone open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Answer to this is in the newspaper article...
    Any open carrying of anything? Or totally outlawed and unable to get permission to UOC? Guess the exemptions couldn't be applied for handguns?
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

  17. #17
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    Any open carrying of anything? Or totally outlawed and unable to get permission to UOC? Guess the exemptions couldn't be applied for handguns?
    From the article and bolded for emphasis...

    Hoos'gow Day, which this year is scheduled for March 23, is one of the highlights of the city's annual Fiesta de las Golondrinas, or Swallows Festival, which celebrates the traditional return of migrating swallows from Argentina. .
    March 23 hasn't happened yet.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Looks like the organizers have time on their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    From the article and bolded for emphasis...



    March 23 hasn't happened yet.
    To attempt to use some of the exemptions available to joe citizen let's hope they fight this to the day of the event. Hope that someone out there keeps us informed of the news.Totally missed the March date.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    So the date has gone

    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    To attempt to use some of the exemptions available to joe citizen let's hope they fight this to the day of the event. Hope that someone out there keeps us informed of the news.Totally missed the March date.
    so never heard or saw anything about this auspicious event any news or articles? I'm guessing this became a total non starter as no one was able to use any of the exemptions to successfully UOC anything!
    Last edited by EXTREMEOPS1; 05-06-2012 at 07:10 AM.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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