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2nd Kansas Attorney General Opinion on City preemption & Open Carry within a year!!

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grimjack

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
25
Location
Kansas City, KS
KC KS knows

campfire said:
Is anyone planning to send the new AG letter to the KCKS or OPKS attorneys or city council members and tell them to please fix their ordinances to comply? (It might be nice not to have to do the court thing, right grimjack?)
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As I have mentioned before, I am a civilian employee working in Wyandotte County, and I can tell you, they know about the AG opinions, and about the change to the state constitution. They don't care. I even wrote an email to the Sheriff, who I know personally, and asked what the Sheriff's Department position was on open carry. Two weeks ago. No response. It is my personal opinion from working there that until they lose a lawsuit, they will not change. They may not even change after they lose a lawsuit. I can't speak for OP, but in KC, the upper management of the city and "law" enforcement don't think that a lot of laws in Kansas apply to them. Maybe if more people wrote to the Sheriff and the Chief of Police asking them about these things, they would notice? I wouldn't hold my breath though.
Grimjack
 
Damiansar-15

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
Agree

grimjack said:
As I have mentioned before, I am a civilian employee working in Wyandotte County, and I can tell you, they know about the AG opinions, and about the change to the state constitution. They don't care. I even wrote an email to the Sheriff, who I know personally, and asked what the Sheriff's Department position was on open carry. Two weeks ago. No response. It is my personal opinion from working there that until they lose a lawsuit, they will not change. They may not even change after they lose a lawsuit. I can't speak for OP, but in KC, the upper management of the city and "law" enforcement don't think that a lot of laws in Kansas apply to them. Maybe if more people wrote to the Sheriff and the Chief of Police asking them about these things, they would notice? I wouldn't hold my breath though.
Grimjack
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I think the same sentiment is in play with Wichita, as well. A letter from the AG was even sent to head of legal in Wichita and they still charged a person for legally open carrying in Wichita. See thread below that also has the specific letter sent to Wichita legal towards the end of the thread...

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...in-with-the-Police-Before-New-Year’s-Eve-2011
 
Damiansar-15

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
Legal Update

Finally got in touch with City legal...They "say" they are working with WPD to determine IF changes should be made to city ordinances, since AG opinions are not binding on the city. Apparently WPD will continue to enforce local ordinances until "any" changes are made. It appears that they are not concerned that they are in violation of State law and that current practice of arresting open carriers at gun point for doing something perfectly legal is the current mode of operation for now... I wish my hometown had more stand-up leadership like the other Kansas cities who are trying to do the right thing until ordinances/police proceedure are changed to comply with State/Federal law.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the recent Wichita open carry case that was supposed to have its first court appearance this month... It appears that City does not mind enforcing illegal/unConstitutional ordinances and putting individual officers in jeopardy by exposing them to FBI investigations for civil rights violations.
 
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sha-ul

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
96
Location
Kansas
Damiansar-15 said:
It will be interesting to see what happens with the recent Wichita open carry case that was supposed to have its first court appearance this month... It appears that City does not mind enforcing illegal/unconstitutional ordinances and putting individual officers in jeopardy by exposing them to FBI investigations for civil rights violations.
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Will send you as pm.
 
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Echo4PapaBravo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Olathe, Kansas
K.S.A. 2010 Supp.
12-16,124(b)(2), which reads as follows:
(b) Nothing in this section shall:
…
(2) prohibit a city or county from regulating the manner of openly carrying
a loaded firearm on one’s person; or in the immediate control of a person,
not licensed under the personal and family protection act while on property
open to the public.
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I read that to say that the section does not stop a city or county from having the right of creating it's own ordinances, or define the legality of such ordinances, that take away our civil rights defined in the 2nd amendment.
 
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Damiansar-15

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
Regulate NOT Ban

Echo4PapaBravo said:
I read that to say that the section does not stop a city or county from having the right of creating it's own ordinances, or define the legality of such ordinances, that take away our civil rights defined in the 2nd amendment.
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This allows the city to regulate not ban. For example, Wichita bans LOADED open carry, which goes against State law. What Wichita should do in order to regulate is make an ordinance that requires rifles to be slung and pistols to be holstered when open carrying. This would be an example of "regulating" without banning and clearly would show some common sense in regards to public safety when compared to banning loaded firearms within public areas. Writing a law that forbids me from carrying a "loaded" pistol goes against the law that allows me to carry "loaded" firearms.
 
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Echo4PapaBravo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Olathe, Kansas
Couldn't it be argued that it is merely a regulation on Open Carry that the weapon be unloaded? I don't see this as such, but I could see how it can be deemed legitimate. Personally this doesn't bother me since they would need to lawfully detain me in order to verify that the weapon was unloaded, and in my case, I see unloaded as being no round chambered. My magazine will be fully loaded, but my magazine is not my firearm, even when inserted into the firearm. A firearm is no less a weapon with the magazine not inserted, unless you are unfortunate enough to own one with a magazine safety (if you do, get rid of it, those things suck). And since Kansas has not defined "unloaded", I find myself feeling that my interpretation is just as valid as any other.

My point is that we really need to stop even the ability to regulate any form of gun and ammo ownership or carry, because people will read into any statement what they will, and even two people reading it the same, will have different definitions for the words used. No where in the 2nd amendment does it say you shall be required to take a safety course and pay an additional tax to the sheriff and local government in order to carry your weapon out of sight of potentially hostile individuals, which every other person on the planet is; nor does it say that you can be limited to only carrying said weapon openly if you forget to load it so that said individual has the chance to negate your ability to defend yourself with said weapon.

Actually the 14th amendment states that a State can't do any of this, so how would a County or City be allowed to? "...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States...". We need to get some legislators in office, on the State and Federal levels, who actually believe in the Constitution and will not only uphold its words, but enforce them.
 
Damiansar-15

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
Read the ks law>>>>>

Echo4PapaBravo said:
Couldn't it be argued that it is merely a regulation on Open Carry that the weapon be unloaded? I don't see this as such, but I could see how it can be deemed legitimate. Personally this doesn't bother me since they would need to lawfully detain me in order to verify that the weapon was unloaded, and in my case, I see unloaded as being no round chambered. My magazine will be fully loaded, but my magazine is not my firearm, even when inserted into the firearm. A firearm is no less a weapon with the magazine not inserted, unless you are unfortunate enough to own one with a magazine safety (if you do, get rid of it, those things suck). And since Kansas has not defined "unloaded", I find myself feeling that my interpretation is just as valid as any other.

My point is that we really need to stop even the ability to regulate any form of gun and ammo ownership or carry, because people will read into any statement what they will, and even two people reading it the same, will have different definitions for the words used. No where in the 2nd amendment does it say you shall be required to take a safety course and pay an additional tax to the sheriff and local government in order to carry your weapon out of sight of potentially hostile individuals, which every other person on the planet is; nor does it say that you can be limited to only carrying said weapon openly if you forget to load it so that said individual has the chance to negate your ability to defend yourself with said weapon.

Actually the 14th amendment states that a State can't do any of this, so how would a County or City be allowed to? "...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States...". We need to get some legislators in office, on the State and Federal levels, who actually believe in the Constitution and will not only uphold its words, but enforce them.
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READ THE LAW- Kansas cities are only allowed to regulate LOADED firearms. If the weapon is unloaded, than it is NOT LOADED, therefore regulating that the weapon is unloaded would be considered a scope that the cities can not touch, e.g. can't regulate unloaded weapons.... Do you get the logic on this? I agree with your other points regarding Federal law, but at the city level, they only really care about State law, but often try to buck, this as well. It is quite clear that Wichita is obviously NOT following KS State law, but only a lawsuit will cause them to change. The KS AG POV obviously does not change Wichita's behavior....
 
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