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Thread: Safeway Open cary policy letter.

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Safeway Open cary policy letter.

    I had a manager at Safeway on top of Queen Anne, that I've been shopping at for 7 years, tell me some customers were complaining to him about my open carry. I told him what the deal was, but I was out of pamphlets. I tried searching for the policy letter but couldn't find it. Anyone know anything?

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    Regular Member Hardbuck90's Avatar
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    I carry in Fairwood and Maple Valley Safeway without any problems

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    Safeway follows state law.
    It is a better place for a OCer than Walmart.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Safeway follows state law.
    It is a better place for a OCer than Walmart.
    I did a quick look at Safeway's website but was not sure where to look. Do you know where it says that? It might be a good thing to carry in my pocket
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I did a quick look at Safeway's website but was not sure where to look. Do you know where it says that? It might be a good thing to carry in my pocket
    sorry eddy,,,
    Ive never seen a cite, but Always read they are never a problem and have read thats the way they are.
    I did my first OC there.
    When I walked in, their was some announcement over the loud speaker, and a "mananger" seemed to be "around" all the
    places I shopped at, but never said a word.
    She even bagged up my purchace, smiled and thanked me!

    Walmart also follows state law,,, but they let the store "manager" use their own discretion,
    which often leads to uneven treatment of OCers.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  6. #6
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    They don't need to have a "Policy" on Firearms carry. They can ask you to leave the Store for ANY reason if they feel you are upsetting their Customers or Employees. It's their choice and if you refuse to comply with their request to leave the firearm in the car or cover up they will no doubt enlist the Police to assist them. As it's been stated an almost infinite number of times, it's private property and your right to entry can be revoked by the owner or his agent.


    Yes, you have a right to carry a firearm but the Store has a right to say "Not Here".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    sooo well,,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    They don't need to have a "Policy" on Firearms carry. They can ask you to leave the Store for ANY reason if they feel you are upsetting their Customers or Employees. It's their choice and if you refuse to comply with their request to leave the firearm in the car or cover up they will no doubt enlist the Police to assist them. As it's been stated an almost infinite number of times, it's private property and your right to entry can be revoked by the owner or his agent.


    Yes, you have a right to carry a firearm but the Store has a right to say "Not Here".
    thanks for pointing out the apparent lawfull truth,,,, because that is the truth!!!

    my point is that some companies, starbucks, safeway and others,,,
    maintain a corporate policy of following state law!
    they do not allow local managers to kick out a patron, when that patron is acting in accordance with state law,,, unless
    that patron is "actually "causing a disturbance""!
    They wont kick you out just because somebody is concerned by your lawfull actions!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    They don't need to have a "Policy" on Firearms carry. They can ask you to leave the Store for ANY reason if they feel you are upsetting their Customers or Employees. It's their choice and if you refuse to comply with their request to leave the firearm in the car or cover up they will no doubt enlist the Police to assist them. As it's been stated an almost infinite number of times, it's private property and your right to entry can be revoked by the owner or his agent.


    Yes, you have a right to carry a firearm but the Store has a right to say "Not Here".
    It may be private property but the store is a franchise and is still operated by the company's policy's and procedures. If a store has a follow the state type firearms policy it should not matter if it is private property or not
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    I think the point is that regardless of company policy if asked to leave by an employee (authorized or not) you leave. You recourse comes later.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    maintain a corporate policy of following state law!
    What State Law? As far as I know, there is none in Washington that requires a Private Property Owner or agent to allow carry of a firearm on their premises.

    As for ejecting someone for "disturbing" a customer because they are carrying, just remember, it's all in the eyes of the Owner/Manager as to what constitutes a disturbance.

    How many times have we seen posts where someone is asked to cover or leave only to have the "carrier" try to educate rather than complying. Sometimes those conversations get far too loud and THAT's the disturbance that gets them ejected.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    What State Law? As far as I know, there is none in Washington that requires a Private Property Owner or agent to allow carry of a firearm on their premises.

    As for ejecting someone for "disturbing" a customer because they are carrying, just remember, it's all in the eyes of the Owner/Manager as to what constitutes a disturbance.

    How many times have we seen posts where someone is asked to cover or leave only to have the "carrier" try to educate rather than complying. Sometimes those conversations get far too loud and THAT's the disturbance that gets them ejected.
    ....... you loose.....
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  12. #12
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I had a manager at Safeway on top of Queen Anne, that I've been shopping at for 7 years, tell me some customers were complaining to him about my open carry. I told him what the deal was, but I was out of pamphlets. I tried searching for the policy letter but couldn't find it. Anyone know anything?
    I see other's talking of it, but you never mentioned if you were asked to leave, were you?

    If not great, and make a complaint to the manger about being harassed by other customers.

  13. #13
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    The manager never asked me to leave. I've been shopping there for 7 years. The store is in the rich elite of seattle's anti gun neighborhood. This is the were the anti gun leader Tom Wales was killed.

    I live here. Never had any problems. This manager seemed interested in not a good way. He struck me as being an instigator and a threat to changing the way things are.

    I went back to the store 3 hours later to get some party supplies and talked with one of the other managers that knows me, and gave him one of our pamphlets to give to the other manager. So we will see what happens.

    I only asked where the policy letter was because it would squash things quickly. I thought I saw it here, but I guess not, no one seems to know where it is.
    Last edited by jsanchez; 01-23-2012 at 02:00 AM.

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    You might have to email Safeway directly, a nice pro carry letter printed with the Safeway logo in the back would only help
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    What State Law? As far as I know, there is none in Washington that requires a Private Property Owner or agent to allow carry of a firearm on their premises.

    As for ejecting someone for "disturbing" a customer because they are carrying, just remember, it's all in the eyes of the Owner/Manager as to what constitutes a disturbance.

    How many times have we seen posts where someone is asked to cover or leave only to have the "carrier" try to educate rather than complying. Sometimes those conversations get far too loud and THAT's the disturbance that gets them ejected.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    ....... you loose.....
    You mean 'lose?'

    No matter, he doesn't lose.

    "Follow state law" can mean whatever they desire it to mean. It means that if they are required to post, they can. It also means that they can choose to allow lawful carry if they desire. The popular view by OCers is that 'it means they must allow OC.' But, that isn't accurate.


    If the business owner (or representative of the business owner) desires anyone to leave, they have that power. If they choose to eject someone for simply OC of a firearm, they can. And, they can do that by following state law. Now, IF the corporate policy were to "allow Second Amendment Rights in accordance with state law," then you would have a point.
    Last edited by wrightme; 01-22-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I had a manager at Safeway on top of Queen Anne, that I've been shopping at for 7 years, tell me some customers were complaining to him about my open carry. I told him what the deal was, but I was out of pamphlets. I tried searching for the policy letter but couldn't find it. Anyone know anything?
    Please bookmark the nwcdl.org page, this is where downloads are kept.

    Here is a letter from Safeway. However, as others have discussed, a manager may ask you to leave at any time and failure to do so is trespassing.
    Last edited by gogodawgs; 01-22-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    This is the were the anti gun leader tom welsy was killed.
    Don't you mean the Federal Prosecutor Tom Wales?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    However, as others have discussed, a manager may ask you to leave at any time and failure to do so is trespassing.
    I don't think that's necessarily true. The way the law is written, an employee (even a manager) is probably not acting as the agent of the owner while disobeying the owner's policies, guidelines or orders. The problem with the view that any employee is always the agent, is that that would permit the lowest ranked employee to call police and trespass anyone, even the store manager or owner for any reason (and it occurs to me that a believable impostor doing so would be a nifty way to rob a store).

    The thing is, police generally just arrest anyone an employee (or believable impostor) points at and calls a trespasser. So you might be legally on solid ground, but you'd still go to jail.
    Last edited by Difdi; 01-22-2012 at 10:04 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I don't think that's necessarily true. The way the law is written, an employee (even a manager) is probably not acting as the agent of the owner while disobeying the owner's policies, guidelines or orders. The problem with the view that any employee is always the agent, is that that would permit the lowest ranked employee to call police and trespass anyone, even the store manager or owner for any reason (and it occurs to me that a believable impostor doing so would be a nifty way to rob a store).

    The thing is, police generally just arrest anyone an employee (or believable impostor) points at and calls a trespasser. So you might be legally on solid ground, but you'd still go to jail.
    Wrong. I have been a manager in retail for 20+ years, including Safeway. You are flat out wrong.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    You are flat out wrong.
    I should have read Navy LCDR's post before I posted. Absolutly correct Gogo and Navy LCDR.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 01-22-2012 at 11:52 PM.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Wrong. I have been a manager in retail for 20+ years, including Safeway. You are flat out wrong.

    If a lowly sales clerk is NOT vested with the authority by HIS superior to eject people from the store, Ie. check with the supervisor first and the supervisor makes the decision.. It would seem to me that the employee, directly in violation of company policy, does NOT have the authority to eject people, and any request is invalid since no authority has been granted.


    According to some of you guys, the bread guy that comes in @ 3am, who's in the store all of 30 mins, has the authority to kick someone out.

    I just don't see it.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Thanks gogodawgs for the letter, and I booked mark the link. Thanks amlevin, it is Tom Wales and I will correct that above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    If a lowly sales clerk is NOT vested with the authority by HIS superior to eject people from the store, Ie. check with the supervisor first and the supervisor makes the decision.. It would seem to me that the employee, directly in violation of company policy, does NOT have the authority to eject people, and any request is invalid since no authority has been granted.


    According to some of you guys, the bread guy that comes in @ 3am, who's in the store all of 30 mins, has the authority to kick someone out.

    I just don't see it.
    The problem is that if any employee asks you to leave and you refuse, the police will be called, and if you still refuse, you will be cited or arrested. Then, you are hoping the courts will agree with your interpretation of "authorized agent."

    Nope; I'll leave, then call the store and tell them a good customer was just run off by a rogue employee. Hopefully, the hoplophobe will lose his job and I will be able to continue carrying as before. If not, I'll spend my money with private property owners who realize that anti-gun policies do nothing to make their properties safer - aka not idiots.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    If a lowly sales clerk is NOT vested with the authority by HIS superior to eject people from the store, Ie. check with the supervisor first and the supervisor makes the decision.. It would seem to me that the employee, directly in violation of company policy, does NOT have the authority to eject people, and any request is invalid since no authority has been granted.


    According to some of you guys, the bread guy that comes in @ 3am, who's in the store all of 30 mins, has the authority to kick someone out.

    I just don't see it.
    Whether that employee's actions were legitimate and valid within the realm of the company its self is something you'd learn after the fact, if at all, after you'd spend the night in jail and a large sum of treasure trying to fight a trespassing charge. It's entirely plausible that Joe Hoplophobe would be out of a job AND you would now have a misdemeanor rap on your record.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    Thanks gogodawgs for the letter...
    Glad you have the letter you need; it should serve as a solid visual aid if there's a next time at Safeway. It seems that even after you mentioned you were not asked to leave all the what-if’s, and sea-lawyer discussion muffled out this important tidbit. So let me be the first to say you must have handled it well, even though you observed the manger as shaky, you remained without being asked to leave. Good job!
    Last edited by jbone; 01-23-2012 at 07:12 PM.

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