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Thread: Occupy Wall Street protestor w/ illegal pistol bailed out by OWS

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Occupy Wall Street protestor w/ illegal pistol bailed out by OWS

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    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-22-2012 at 01:12 PM.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    This blog has links to mainstream media articles about the series of events.

    Basically, he's not allowed to possess because of a domestic violence incident (which appears to be legit),
    yet he got a .45 from someone at an occupy protest in NC,
    in a state not his state of residence (which is OH),
    carried it in his truck,
    across multiple state lines,
    without any sort of license (because he's prohibited),
    no note of whether it was unloaded & in a locked case, out of reach (I'd guess no),
    into NYC,
    and fell prey to their draconian gun laws.

    Then Occupy bailed him out.
    So how exactly did Occupy justify paying his bail?

    Now, since the pistol was apparently a gift, that would be legal, right?
    Except that he's prohibited.

    I admit, none of what he did harmed anyone, but he did break multiple laws.
    One more example of a bunch of bad laws - they don't stop criminals, they do infringe the rights of decent people.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-22-2012 at 01:14 PM.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Meanwhile Meredith Graves, a law-abiding citizen from TN with a legitimate carry permit, is looking at 3 years in a NY prison for trying to do the right thing, and check her gun when she saw a sign at "Ground Zero" while carrying her lawfull-possessed firearm. And THAT story got ALL KINDS of national news coverage...

    So when some violent, crazed tatoo artists transports an illegally-obtained gun into NY to hang out with a bunch of unemployed anti-American hippies, it's OK, but when some law-abiding woman from TN tries to follow the law, she's looking at prison.

    Yeah, that makes sense...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    The Right To Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed...

    Criminals never ceded the right to bear arms.

    Ergo, they are the only ones who can in all circumstances.
    Last edited by Kirbinator; 01-22-2012 at 05:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Meanwhile Meredith Graves, a law-abiding citizen from TN with a legitimate carry permit, is looking at 3 years in a NY prison for trying to do the right thing, and check her gun when she saw a sign at "Ground Zero" while carrying her lawfull-possessed firearm. And THAT story got ALL KINDS of national news coverage...

    So when some violent, crazed tatoo artists transports an illegally-obtained gun into NY to hang out with a bunch of unemployed anti-American hippies, it's OK, but when some law-abiding woman from TN tries to follow the law, she's looking at prison.

    Yeah, that makes sense...
    I don't believe there is such a thing as a law-abiding citizen... Some people try to follow the law to the best of their ability, but with millions of laws on the books on the municipal, county, state, and federal levels, everyone is a criminal and nobody has the ability to know or follow all of the laws. Many criminals never knew they were one, and some have never been convicted of their crimes, but we are all criminals.

    Some criminals rape, rob, and kill. Others bring the wrong thing in the wrong place, step over the wrong imaginary line in the sand, ingest the wrong thing, do something trivial without the proper licenses or tax stamps, or break some other obscure law.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 01-22-2012 at 07:59 PM.

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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    I don't believe there is such a thing as a law-abiding citizen.
    Abide is not synonymous with obey. It means delay, stay, dwell, sojourn, endure, sustain, submit, tolerate, suffer, suffer for ... It's from Old English 'to wait' - from before Shakespeare.

    A law abiding citizen is put-off at the thought of not obeying the law.

    Only the law abiding abide the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    I don't believe there is such a thing as a law-abiding citizen... Some people try to follow the law to the best of their ability, but with millions of laws on the books on the municipal, county, state, and federal levels, everyone is a criminal and nobody has the ability to know or follow all of the laws. Many criminals never knew they were one, and some have never been convicted of their crimes, but we are all criminals.

    Some criminals rape, rob, and kill. Others bring the wrong thing in the wrong place, step over the wrong imaginary line in the sand, ingest the wrong thing, do something trivial without the proper licenses or tax stamps, or break some other obscure law.
    Ayn Rand commented on this in Atlas Shrugged. The bad guy said:

    "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kinds of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of lawbreakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    There is a disturbing trend toward the "felonization" of everyday activities, and this is being driven by two camps--one, the nanny-state control freak sociopaths in Government, and two, the Prison-Industrial Complex, in their ever-growing campaign to expand their population.

    It has become nearly impossible to get out of bed in the USA without committing a felony...

    http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies...7282037&sr=1-2


    It's getting so bad that even traditionally left-leaning liberal civil rights activists like Larry Silverglate are starting to call out jurisdictions like NYC on their repulsive and unconstitutional gun laws:

    http://www.harveysilverglate.com/The...ontTravel.aspx
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-22-2012 at 08:31 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Basically, he's not allowed to possess because of a domestic violence incident (which appears to be legit),
    SNIP
    and fell prey to their draconian gun laws.
    SNIP
    I admit, none of what he did harmed anyone, but he did break multiple laws.
    One more example of a bunch of bad laws - they don't stop criminals, they do infringe the rights of decent people.
    Domestic violence, broke NUMEROUS laws afterwards. .. Then "fell prey" ... Decent people?

    Maybe I am not understanding the OP's intent. Yes, NY gun laws are ridiculous as are those of most of the NE states and IL, CA and HI. However, a guy who commits domestic violence and then several felonies is not decent people and is not remotely an example of LAC. Sounds like he was headed towards getting busted by an LEO somewhere for something soon.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Only the law abiding abide the law.
    And the Dude. The Dude abides.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Meanwhile Meredith Graves, a law-abiding citizen from TN with a legitimate carry permit, is looking at 3 years in a NY prison for trying to do the right thing, and check her gun when she saw a sign at "Ground Zero" while carrying her lawfull-possessed firearm. And THAT story got ALL KINDS of national news coverage...

    So when some violent, crazed tatoo artists transports an illegally-obtained gun into NY to hang out with a bunch of unemployed anti-American hippies, it's OK, but when some law-abiding woman from TN tries to follow the law, she's looking at prison.

    Yeah, that makes sense...
    Dreamer, we've discussed this. When you post responses I agree with entirely I find myself with the urge to line my ballcap with reynolds wrap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Domestic violence, broke NUMEROUS laws afterwards. .. Then "fell prey" ... Decent people?

    Maybe I am not understanding the OP's intent. Yes, NY gun laws are ridiculous as are those of most of the NE states and IL, CA and HI. However, a guy who commits domestic violence and then several felonies is not decent people and is not remotely an example of LAC. Sounds like he was headed towards getting busted by an LEO somewhere for something soon.
    Getting charged with domestic violence these days can happen even if you were miles away at the time your "baby's momma" alleged you beat her. If your brother is pist off at you and throws his keys at you he can be charged with DV. If your 36 y/o loser druggie daughter who's "living with you" after her release from rehab and you slap her in the head after finding her in your house with her deadbeat friends sharing a needle, you're guilty of DV. The Laughtenberg Law is one of the most insidious reactionary laws passed in a futile attempt too keep people from killing each other, even though killing itself is illegal.

    I have no sympathy for the guy, and it has little too to with the fact he's a libtard oxygen thief. However gun laws like those in the People's Republik of New York not only infringe on the rights of decent people, they infringe of the rights of scumbag malcontents who deserve the same rights the rest of us do until they cross the line of being an actual violent felon. As much as hate people who keep themselves in relationships with people who are violent, or "push their buttons" so hard they react violently, laws that forever disarm a person who lost it and slapped the person who may have even deserved it or used violence to dominate a weaker person do not stop this behavior. It's the later sort of people who the law was designed to disarm and there is a reasonable basis for it, but it's still over reaching and has denied the RTKBA too far too many people.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    -snip-

    Now, since the pistol was apparently a gift, that would be legal, right?
    -snip-.

    You need a pistol purchase permit to receive a hand gun in NC, unless you hold a NC CHP

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDT COX View Post
    You need a pistol purchase permit to receive a hand gun in NC, unless you hold a NC CHP
    Do you have to get that from the Sheriff like we used to have in MO?

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Do you have to get that from the Sheriff like we used to have in MO?
    Yes, and to issue one, they run a NICS check. If this guy had a standing restraining order for DV, there is no way he would have been issued a PPP in NC...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    There are more people in prison in the US today than Stalin EVER had in his gulags.

    There are more black men in prison in the USA today than there were slaves in the USA in 1850.


    http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critic...urrentPage=all


    Anyone who doesn't think we are already living in a police state is just uninformed about the TRUE nature of the Prison-Industrial Complex...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    There are more people in prison in the US today than Stalin EVER had in his gulags.

    There are more black men in prison in the USA today than there were slaves in the USA in 1850.


    http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critic...urrentPage=all


    Anyone who doesn't think we are already living in a police state is just uninformed about the TRUE nature of the Prison-Industrial Complex...
    Uhhh... Last I looked Stalin killed around 20 million or more people, most of whom never made it too the gulags. There is no rational comparison to our prison population and that of the USSR. Now I can agree there are WAY TOO MANY people locked up for some stupid reasons like drug possesion. I still don't have a lot of sympathy for them because it's real easy to stay out of prison...

    DON'T BREAK THE %$#@!* LAW!!!!


    I did see something disturbing on MSNBC (I find it disturbing I watched anything on MSNBC as well) about prisoners manufacturing consumer goods for private industrial profit, on this issue I'm in agreement (I assume) with you that it's wrong.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    I did see something disturbing on MSNBC (I find it disturbing I watched anything on MSNBC as well) about prisoners manufacturing consumer goods for private industrial profit, on this issue I'm in agreement (I assume) with you that it's wrong.

    Yes, we agree on this point 100%.

    Generally, prison labor gets about $0.25/hour for their work. They manufacture furniture, prefab building components, clothing and printed material for the government and for various school systems and foodstuffs for school lunch programs.

    Prison labor is the "new plantation".

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/us...pagewanted=all

    http://www.thenation.com/article/162...d-prison-labor

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8289

    I've got no issue for "penal labor" like highway cleanup crews, working on farms to grow their own food for use INSIDE the prison system, stamping license plates, and even breaking big rocks into little rocks. But using the prison population to undermine the American labor force with impossibly cheap labor is fundamentally anti-American and egregiously immoral...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Getting charged with domestic violence these days can happen even if you were miles away at the time your "baby's momma" alleged you beat her. If your brother is pist off at you and throws his keys at you he can be charged with DV. If your 36 y/o loser druggie daughter who's "living with you" after her release from rehab and you slap her in the head after finding her in your house with her deadbeat friends sharing a needle, you're guilty of DV. The Laughtenberg Law is one of the most insidious reactionary laws passed in a futile attempt too keep people from killing each other, even though killing itself is illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    DON'T BREAK THE %$#@!* LAW!!!!
    That's right, buddy. Don't break the law.

    I do, however, agree with you about DV laws. And that I have little sympathy for those in prison for drug possession.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Ayn Rand commented on this in Atlas Shrugged. The bad guy said:

    "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kinds of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of lawbreakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
    I forgot to +1 this earlier. Perfect quote.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    And that I have little sympathy for those in prison for drug possession.

    This coming from a man who's online screen name is based on a fictional medical doctor who is addicted to precription pain killers and is an alcoholic.

    Irony, FTW...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    This coming from a man who's online screen name is based on a fictional medical doctor who is addicted to precription pain killers and is an alcoholic.

    Irony, FTW...
    I'm a genius, I can do whatever I want! *pops some Vicodin*

    FTR, my lack of sympathy should not be seen as a reflection of my stance on drug laws. It's a reflection of my opinion of drug users. For example, I should have the right to OC unlicensed if I so choose. But I don't in Texas. If one day I just decided I couldn't resist the urge to OC anymore, therefore started OCing and was subsequently arrested for it. Would I deserve sympathy?

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Yes, we agree on this point 100%.

    Generally, prison labor gets about $0.25/hour for their work. They manufacture furniture, prefab building components, clothing and printed material for the government and for various school systems and foodstuffs for school lunch programs.

    Prison labor is the "new plantation".

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/us...pagewanted=all

    http://www.thenation.com/article/162...d-prison-labor

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8289

    I've got no issue for "penal labor" like highway cleanup crews, working on farms to grow their own food for use INSIDE the prison system, stamping license plates, and even breaking big rocks into little rocks. But using the prison population to undermine the American labor force with impossibly cheap labor is fundamentally anti-American and egregiously immoral...
    I agree we have gone too far enforcing behavioral laws that do nothing to rehabilitate people. No one seems too be considering a system where addicts and non-violent and non-perverted offenders with proper qualifiers get "jobs" in the system and something around $1 an hour put in savings upon their release. In those cases parole officers could act more like social workers and quide people into a productive civilian life where they might be able clear thei names. Too many felons can't get a break after their release and return to what they were doing that led to their criminal history. Giving them a couple of bucks a day and letting them squander it on "commissary" ensures they hit the street broke.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    I'm a genius, I can do whatever I want! *pops some Vicodin*

    FTR, my lack of sympathy should not be seen as a reflection of my stance on drug laws. It's a reflection of my opinion of drug users. For example, I should have the right to OC unlicensed if I so choose. But I don't in Texas. If one day I just decided I couldn't resist the urge to OC anymore, therefore started OCing and was subsequently arrested for it. Would I deserve sympathy?

    Now that was funny!

    I personally don't care if people use dope. It's when they break into my house in order to steal and support their habits, it's when they neglect their children, become schizophrenic and a danger too society that I have a concern with. Completely unregulated drug use would certainly see an increase in these behaviors.

    So my imagination of a world where anyone not incarcerated can OC and consume any amount of any substance as frequently as they wish is equally as nightmarish as Orwell's 1984. Both scenarios are equally as insane.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    I personally don't care if people use dope. It's when they break into my house in order to steal and support their habits, it's when they neglect their children, become schizophrenic and a danger too society that I have a concern with. Completely unregulated drug use would certainly see an increase in these behaviors.

    Yes, just like the unfettered civil mayhem we saw in the US in the first 160 years of our Nation's existance, when "drugs" were COMPLETELY UNREGULATED...

    Oh, wait a minute, that was the period in history when we abolished slavery, gave Women the vote, harnessed electricity, spanned the nation with roads, rails and communication systems, discovered massive deposits of gold, oil, coal, and natural gas, and the American Industrial Revolution occurred...

    Yeah, we wouldn't want THAT sort of behavior going on in the USA, would we?...


    "PfW", please cite a single credible source for this assertion that you make about the social impact of deregulation of "recreational drugs".
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-27-2012 at 10:44 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Now, since the pistol was apparently a gift, that would be legal, right?
    Except that he's prohibited.
    Gifting to a prohibited person is, well, prohibited.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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