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Thread: The Castle Doctrine at work in St. Louis

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    The Castle Doctrine at work in St. Louis

    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Nice read. Thanks gunner. It's nice to wake up with a positive story in the morning.

    snip "They tried to get my washer and dryer too, but that was bolted to the floor," said Whitfield,"

    Wow! Who bolts the washer and dryer to the floor? And then someone tries to steal it? WTF?
    Last edited by Griz; 01-23-2012 at 09:49 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Overall a pretty good, balanced article. But I didn't like this;
    "St. Louis police are changing how they handle apparent justifiable homicide cases in response to the spate of such shootings."

    Probably what the police said but really, it should be something like, "St. Louis police are looking at changing how they patrol for and respond to burglaries and home invasions in reponse to the recent spate of lawlessness forcing citizens to defend themselves in their own homes."

    That sentence really is a "blame the victim" mentality. The extra review leaves the LAC who self-defended in a state of legal limbo, wondering about the outcome of something that should in most cases be pretty self-evident. Such extra review should be on a case by case basis. That it will apply to every case is more of the zero-tolerance-every-situation-is-the-same-as-every-other-bureaucrats-want-to-pass-the-decision-making-buck attitude that is far too pervasive in gov't.

    Still, beats the heck out of living in the Peoples Republic of Chicago next door...

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Nice article.

    Although, I sort of got the impression the writer was trying to make a mockery of the Castle Doctrine. It seemed subtle, but was there. Myabe I'm just a tad biased?

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Can anyone point to ONE story of someone breaking into a house to get medical attention? I have heard of people knocking or banging on the someones door to get medical care but not climbing into a window in the middle of the night? It seems like the legislator that brought this up was just anti and not real informed.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    How about a crack-head climbing into your window to 'get' some medical help-for-himself from your medicine chest?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Nice article.

    Although, I sort of got the impression the writer was trying to make a mockery of the Castle Doctrine. It seemed subtle, but was there. Myabe I'm just a tad biased?
    No, I got that vibe too. Although IMO it wasn't subtle at all. The writer appears to be opposed to the Castle Doctrine, and found a less confrontational way to put it on paper.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    How about a crack-head climbing into your window to 'get' some medical help-for-himself from your medicine chest?
    Self medication doesn't count; most people go to a pharmacy to fill an R/X. How would he know what I have in my medician cabinet. (sarcasim)

    If he doesn't have a prescription from a legal medical provider to fill his perscription at my house then he/she is fair game to play hide the bullet(s).

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    No, I got that vibe too. Although IMO it wasn't subtle at all. The writer appears to be opposed to the Castle Doctrine, and found a less confrontational way to put it on paper.

    One of our local TV stations posted an abriviated article of it on their web site; it definitely gives a slanted impression. Name:  facepalm.gif
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Can anyone point to ONE story of someone breaking into a house to get medical attention?
    That's a good way to no longer need it.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Can anyone point to ONE story of someone breaking into a house to get medical attention? I have heard of people knocking or banging on the someones door to get medical care but not climbing into a window in the middle of the night? It seems like the legislator that brought this up was just anti and not real informed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mo View Post
    That's a good way to no longer need it.
    GOOD ANSWER!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    I guess 2007 was a great year? Adopting the Castle Domain.

    Lets face it, probably 90% of the thugs do not read, nor educated enough to understand most of the laws (NO Jay walking, etc)... so of course, in STL city... they know of the old laws... that the "law biding citizen" cannot use a fire arm if the robber isn't showing a threat to life. They (thugs) knew of the law that robbing and stealing isn't a show of threat of life and that the citizen either stays there or try to escape.

    NOW... you'll get your azz blown away. And the citzen gets away with it. I think its pretty cool... just like a thug will lie on you in a heart beat... now the citizen can too....LOL. Hey, what goes around... comes around.


    But this sends a message to thugs... that people are generally "ready for you".

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    Can anyone point to ONE story of someone breaking into a house to get medical attention? I have heard of people knocking or banging on the someones door to get medical care but not climbing into a window in the middle of the night? It seems like the legislator that brought this up was just anti and not real informed.


    GOOD ANSWER!
    In a twisted way of fate.... I responded to a call... that some teenagers (14-19) where partying. Something happend and people where shot. Supposly they were partying at one house... but some how ended up knocking the door of another house seeking help/medical attention??? Of course they let him in... but that could have cause the shooter to come in there to finish the person off.

    Crap happens... and I wouldn't doubt it that, one day some thug is going to plan to do that... knock on your door needing "help" and bam, jack you.

    I have read in a newarticle back when I joined the Opencarry. Anyway, it talked about a couple, open the door seeing a young girl (teens) crying and seemed to be in trouble. When they asked the girl what happen, it reported the girl pulled a razor blade out of her mouth and made the couple allow the other two robbers in. Scary huh.

  14. #14
    Regular Member mechanicworkman's Avatar
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    I read through the news article and brought up two different questions that I many as and see if you guys have an answer.

    In the news article it was stated.

    “People in Missouri can repel intruders on the theory that anyone breaking into an occupied home has evil intentions toward the residents, said Kevin Jamison, a lawyer from Gladstone, Mo., who lobbied for Missouri's castle doctrine bill as a member of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance. The law now covers you even if you fend off a carjacker or confront an intruder in your tent in the woods.”

    Now this brings up my question in reference to the carjacking. Would the car have to be occupied by the someone at the time of incident or per say if I was sitting in my living room and I hear someone breaking into my car, I in turn grab my pistol run out the door catch the person in the act would this not put me in the category of being an aggressor even though I am attempting to protect my property.

    Does the Castle doctrine even allow me to protect my vehicle by use of force.
    2nd question I was unaware that the Missouri Castle Doctrine The law allows you to use that force without fear of being charged or sued is this true.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Use of force in defense of persons. <---- this one first.

    Use of physical force in defense of property. <---- this second.

    The relevant statutes.

    Use your Google Fu to search for self-defense incidents in Missouri.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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