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Thread: Maryland's new rifle

  1. #1
    mattwestm
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    Maryland's new rifle

    Surely no LEO would need a rifle this powerful since Maryland's strict anti-carry laws work so well...

    http://www.hometownannapolis.com/new...guns.html?ne=1

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    A would like to see a list of incidents from the past five years where that gun would have been useful to the police. I doubt they NEED it.

    On the other hand, they are a blast to shoot so I can see why they might WANT one
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  3. #3
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    A couple range trips ago the Carter County SWAT team was there. We would have left immediately if it weren't for the fact that they had a Barret M82; I just wanted to see one in action.

    I was too enamored with them letting me shoot it that I didn't even think to ask if it was the SWAT teams or just owned by one of them. I sincerely hope it's not the team's, as it is completely unneccesary, and would be irritated to know my tax dollars helped pay for it.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    A would like to see a list of incidents from the past five years where that gun would have been useful to the police. I doubt they NEED it.
    I can't think of a single police event in U.S. history, ever, where a .50 BMG rifle would have been needed.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 01-23-2012 at 07:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    The guy that went on a rampage with the armored bulldozer comes to mind, but I'm not so sure a .50 could have stopped it.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

  6. #6
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The excuse the MD police are using to justify these .50 caliber rifles is as an anti-vehicle weapon. They say in an article that it could be used to stop a runaway truck full of explosives used by a terrorist.

    I think the police in MD are watching to many action movies...

    Also, I would like ANYONE in the LE community to give a single example of a "runaway truck full of explosives" used in a terrorist incident ANYWHERE in the industrialized world. As a general rule, terrorists who use truck bombs park them in front of their target, walk away to a safe distance, and then detonate them remotely. The IRA was famous for this.

    And even if you believe the "official story" of Oklahoma City, that truck was parked, unoccupied, in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Building for 5 minutes before it was detonated. (of course, we have no idea how long the demolition charges INSIDE the building that caused the internal structural damage to the rear opposite corner of the building, or the charges in the front that blew structural elements across the street--TOWARD and OVER the truck--were in place...)

    And although a .50BMG can cause catastrophic damage to the engine block of such a truck, a "runaway truck" would have enough momentum that even with a disabled engine, it would be able to travel hundreds of feet without power, if put into neutral by the driver.

    I think we all know the REAL reason that MD LEOs think they need .50 caliber sniper rifles, and it's not for bearded men who live in caves in the desert.

    It's for people like some of the folks on this forum, when the trains start rolling and the camps open up...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I like the "cobbled together" bit. Using the "old pistol grip from a .223 rifle" saved them about $20, too!

    It mentions wanting the ability to deploy it to stop a renegade bomb-laden truck, and that it would not be deployed for more mundane matters. Hope that guy is driving a really slow truck and announcing his intentions long enough for someone to go get the big rifle since the .308's will be so useless until it arrives...

    ON THE PLUS SIDE, I actually appreciate a taxpayer-funded agency that looked for a way to be just as effective at a much lower cost. It's all too often that these types of agencies buy the latest and greatest because their budgets are practically automatically increased to cover these "necessary" expenses. Many companies and suppliers market exclusively to these types of agencies because they can charge much higher prices with less justification.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  8. #8
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I can't think of a single police event in U.S. history, ever, where a .50 BMG rifle would have been needed.

    I'll bet that Lon Horiuchi would beg to differ...

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  9. #9
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Just more militarization of your local police force.......
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I'll bet that Lon Horiuchi would beg to differ...

    I don't know, that worthless piece of **** managed to kill an innocent woman holding her baby just fine. ******* **********.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  11. #11
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I think the anti-cop fixation really gets the best of some. These weapons are an excellent tool for dealing with terrorists. As you see I'm taking a different stance, which is, why not!

    I hope everyone understand the experts in the field of terrorism say it's just a matter of when. So when **** bird terrorists attack (we do know about radical Islam right, the growing threat of radical Islamic terrorists in the U.S., RIGHT?) I would hope that some of the tax dollars went to a means of combating these terrorists.


    Many American citizens own .50's, and that too is excellent. We need all fronts able to defend against, and take down the cowardly terrorist. I bet if you asked, you’d find there are forum members owning Barett’s or McMillan’s. Will you say to them why the hell do you need that? Or will you support their right to defend, and bear arms?

    Last edited by jbone; 01-26-2012 at 02:37 PM. Reason: ADD: meant to say "the growing threat of homegrown radical Islamic terrorists in the U.S., RIGHT?"

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    Will you say to them why the hell do you need that? Or will you support their right to defend, and bear arms?

    The government has no "rights". Rights are the purview of individual human beings.

    The government only has the ability to be armed because We the People ALLOW them to exercise a monopoly on power, as a trade-off for a perceived guarantee of protection (which they have no duty or legal obligation to provide.)

    It is not only the right of every citizen to question every expansion of the government's ability to deal death and destruction upon individuals, it is a CIVIC DUTY.

    Again, the question "why do they need this" has already been asked, and the answer they have given is ridiculous, nonsensical, tactically impossible, and operationally unfeasible. Either the answer is based on abject cluelessness or they are knowingly lying about the REAL reasons they want these firearms.

    This stance is not "anti-cop". It is anti-tyranny and pro-liberty. To categorize questioning of expansion of governmental abilities to deal death and destruction as "anti-cop" is, on it's face, an anti-Freedom statement...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  13. #13
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    ....
    You can make sure your department has enought tracer guns to go around, they are very effective,

    Click image for larger version. 

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    when I was a kid I had one and killed everything sight with one of these. They should work just fine for you local department.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    You can make sure your department has enought tracer guns to go around, they are very effective,

    Click image for larger version. 

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    when I was a kid I had one and killed everything sight with one of these. They should work just fine for you local department.

    I had one of these when I was a kid too, but mine was gold and black, the "Star Trek" version, before the stupid laws that made manufacturers make all toy guns orange...




    And to be honest, many of the LEAs where I live (MD, near Howard, Baltimore and Prince George's Counties) probably shouldn't be issued anything more powerful that these guns anyway, judging by the number of Federal Civil Rights lawsuits and wrongful death lawsuits they've had to pay out over the last 10 years, not to mention the corruption, extortion, theft, murder, smuggling, drug running, and generally criminal behavior in which they are routinely involved...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tates#Maryland

    http://www.justice.gov/usao/md/Publi...onspiracy.html

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rruption-crac/

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/0...investigation/

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/n...nd-run/2135996

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...3/ai_75434981/

    http://www.fbi.gov/baltimore/press-r...0/ba081910.htm

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...rs-repair-shop
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-30-2012 at 07:52 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  15. #15
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I think the anti-cop fixation really gets the best of some. These weapons are an excellent tool for dealing with terrorists. As you see I'm taking a different stance, which is, why not!

    I hope everyone understand the experts in the field of terrorism say it's just a matter of when. So when **** bird terrorists attack (we do know about radical Islam right, the growing threat of radical Islamic terrorists in the U.S., RIGHT?) I would hope that some of the tax dollars went to a means of combating these terrorists.


    Many American citizens own .50's, and that too is excellent. We need all fronts able to defend against, and take down the cowardly terrorist. I bet if you asked, you’d find there are forum members owning Barett’s or McMillan’s. Will you say to them why the hell do you need that? Or will you support their right to defend, and bear arms?

    I can see where you're coming from.
    However, we are talking about Maryland here.
    I remember I have been hassled more than once by Maryland Police just when I mentioned that I was a gun owner and even had a western district AACO policeman say "why, so you can shoot a whole bunch of people" when he saw my Colorado Concealed carry permit.

    I just dont like the police thinking they are more entitled than us regular folks.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    I love the reference to not being able to shoot it yet.

    If they were so good at being able to peice it together economically, why do they not know that .50BMG rounds start around $3.00 each, not $8.00 each? I am sure you CAN find the $8.00 rounds but the "good stuff" is never just for practice.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    If they were so good at being able to peice it together economically, why do they not know that .50BMG rounds start around $3.00 each, not $8.00 each? I am sure you CAN find the $8.00 rounds but the "good stuff" is never just for practice.
    Same reason why MD public schools and many community colleges throw out perfectly good text books and other teaching supplies every year.

    They have to justify their budget increase for each year.

    When I worked at AACC, they would throw out tons of brand new never used books. If they didnt they wouldn't get a budget increase the following year.

    Talk about government waste!
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I think the anti-cop fixation really gets the best of some. These weapons are an excellent tool for dealing with terrorists. As you see I'm taking a different stance, which is, why not!
    The main reason AA Co. Police give for "needing" these rifles is for terrorist attacks on NSA, Ft. Meade, and BWI. Like those facilities can't defend themselves more quickly than calling 911 for AACO PD? Right.

    The NSA HQ is one of the most heavily defended pieces of property in North America. It is loaded with electronic countermeasures ranging from radar jamming and "ballistic lasers" to focused energy weapons that use microwaves and EMP pulses to disable anything that flies, floats or rolls. Not to mention the batteries of anti-aircraft guns and small guided missiles. NSA is more heavily armed and armored than the freaking Pentagon...

    And Ft.Meade isn't far behind on the "power curve".

    For a small, local-yokel police force that has an average 911 response time exceeding 20 minutes to presume they would have even a showballs chance of having any sort of meaningful impact on defending Ft.Meade or NSA is the height of hubris, bordering on insanity. These guys are a little too full of themselves, and are overestimating their departments importance in such a situation by several orders of magnitude...

    BWI, on the other hand, IS a pretty "soft target". But then again, anyone who's ever flown in or out of BWI would probably say that a terrorist strike that destroyed BWI would probably result in an overall improvement to air service in the region...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-30-2012 at 07:55 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  19. #19
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The main reason AA Co. Police give for "needing" these rifles is for terrorist attacks on NSA, Ft. Meade, and BWI. Like those facilities can't defend themselves more quickly than calling 911 for AACO PD? Right.

    The NSA HQ is one of the most heavily defended pieces of property in North America. It is loaded with electronic countermeasures ranging from radar jamming and "ballistic lasers" to focused energy weapons that use microwaves and EMP pulses to disable anything that flies, floats or rolls. Not to mention the batteries of anti-aircraft guns and small guided missiles. NSA is more heavily armed and armored than the freaking Pentagon...
    Dont give the AACO PD any ideas!
    They will be requesting SAM's and AT4's next....
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Now, I am not condoning this, but just think about this:

    Which one of you would refuse a Barrett if someone (I'm sure the feds in this case) were to offer you one for free, or at a greatly reduced price, and then agree to supply the ammo for free or at a discount?????

    All the full auto etc that the LE agencies have these days are either free or mostly paid for by federal funds. Thank O'b for his generosity with your money.
    Last edited by hermannr; 02-02-2012 at 08:56 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    All the full auto etc that the LE agencies have these days are either free or mostly paid for by federal funds. Thank O'b for his generosity with your money.

    I can't speak to YOUR jurisdiction, but last year when the Greenville PD purchased 20+ new AR-15s (semi-auto) they were entirely funded by funds garnered from assetts seized in drug prosecutions. From what I understand, MOST LEAs fund new equipment this way--the Federal Asset Forfeiture program was set up a few decades ago for JUST this reason--to give LEAs a way to convert their "War on Drugs" booty into paramilitary gear. It's a strategy pretty much based on the Ollie North School of Finance.

    Federal funding to LEAs primarily goes to indocrtrination, brainwashing, demonization of the Constitution, and "training"...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  22. #22
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I can't speak to YOUR jurisdiction, but last year when the Greenville PD purchased 20+ new AR-15s (semi-auto) they were entirely funded by funds garnered from assetts seized in drug prosecutions. From what I understand, MOST LEAs fund new equipment this way--the Federal Asset Forfeiture program was set up a few decades ago for JUST this reason--to give LEAs a way to convert their "War on Drugs" booty into paramilitary gear. It's a strategy pretty much based on the Ollie North School of Finance.

    Federal funding to LEAs primarily goes to indocrtrination, brainwashing, demonization of the Constitution, and "training"...
    100% correct.
    This is why in many states the PD can seize your car or in some cases even your home in drug cases BEFORE youre even convicted.
    In some states, if you are pulled over and they find even marijuana residue they can take your car from you.

    So there is a person who's arrested for a non violent crime, vehicle taken away which means he cant get to work which means he will be flat broke and cant afford his own attorney.
    The sate gives him some public defender who doesnt give a damn about his case and the guy ends up in a private corrections facility which also makes the state money.

    Just goes to show you that police arent about justice anymore, Its about profit.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  23. #23
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    100% correct.
    This is why in many states the PD can seize your car or in some cases even your home in drug cases BEFORE youre even convicted.
    In some states, if you are pulled over and they find even marijuana residue they can take your car from you.

    Actually, under Federal (and most State) Asset Forfeiture laws, they can seize real property (houses, land, boats, aircraft, motor vehicles) and financial assets (bank accounts, investments, etc) BEFORE you are even CHARGED with a crime.

    And under these same laws, even if you are acquitted or found non guilty, the seized property remains the Government's property, and you have to SUE them to get it back, and prove that you did everything in your power to ensure that the property would not be used in connection with illicit purposes.

    I helped produce the BJA's "Asset Forfeiture Series" back in the 1990s, which is a multi-pamphlet set (I thin there are 15 or 18 pamphlets in the series, maybe more now) that was made available to local LEAs to guide them how to conduct asset forfeiture programs, complete with Case Law references to support their theft, justify their larceny and defend their treasonous actions.

    I am ashamed that I had a hand in producing that vile tome. I have removed it from my portfolio, and no longer consider it to be indicative of my work. But I do keep 2 copies of it, to remind myself of just how evil, larcenous and criminal our own government has become...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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