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HB 237 This dangerous bill moves on

peter nap

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I'm a bit confused here.

I have puchased several HGs and LGs over the last several years, all in Virginia, from FFLs at gun shows, mom & pop stores, and large chains. At each purchase, I've filled out the requisite 4473 and the VA form. My approvals have always been instantaneous.

Now for my question(s).

The FFL enters my information into the query web page of the VSP and receives a response (proceed, deny, hold, etc). Does this response result from a search of only the VA data base, with results reported to the Feds, or does this response include (partial) queries of the Fed (NICS) data base as well as the VA data base?

If only the NICS were checked, then individuals with serious juvenile issues in other states, which were kept sealed in that state, would be able to purchase firearms here (perhaps they moved here). BTW, this is also true if only the VA data bases are checked. Is there a NICS requirement that if a state relies on their system, that state must furnish sealed record information to the Feds?

Virginia doesn't have a corner on Rube Goldberg computer systems. Fed computer systems are notoriously erratic performers too.

The current system taps a number of databases both state and federal.

There is no Federal requirment for sealed information.

It only knocks out the State Databases. The search is the same otherwise.

It feeds information to the Feds that currently is not available to them. Whatever reason given, that's bad.

If you have to have a bad bill, have the best one out there and that's one that exempts all guns not just long guns.

They keeping using the Gunshow word(s) That makes me hate this bill without further investigation.

Last, going on the assumption that all felonies committed by juveniles are violent and the kid should be branded with a scarlet letter, is nonsense. Sure he could buy a gun in another state. So what?
There is a very good chance that Va will restore rights to non violent felons after a period of time in the near future. Bills for that come up every year and are moving closer to passing all the time.

The good Senator Black needs to pull his head out of that granulated asphault NOVA calls sand.
 
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tkd2006

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Mike I'm sorry you can't understand that Va just doesn't have the people to do the work. The feds have more than enough and thats why they move more transaction quicker that is the bottom line. The systems run the same, for you to say they dont well maybe study up a bit and you will learn more of what you speak.
 

DrMark

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Mike I'm sorry you can't understand that Va just doesn't have the people to do the work. The feds have more than enough and thats why they move more transaction quicker that is the bottom line. The systems run the same, for you to say they dont well maybe study up a bit and you will learn more of what you speak.
You seemed perturbed with Mike, but you're helping him make his point.

You say that "the feds ... move more transaction quicker that is the bottom line." Yeah, that's the bottom line. The state gov't can't run a check system. The VA system is broken. The Fed system works.

I want my purchases from FFLs to be w/o a check (that would be in line with the Constitution), but until that day arrives, I'd rather go through the system that takes minutes rather than the one that takes days. I say, lay off some dead weight in Richmond and go with the Fed system.

It seems the legislature now wants to try to fix the VA system with $400K. I hope that fixes it. If not, we'll be back in the same place next year, looking for a system that actually functions.

People I respect (e.g. Peter Nap) are against the shift to the Fed system. I'm remaining open to their reasoning, and trying to see their perspective, but I'm not convinced why we should stick with a broken system that has effectively instituted a multi-day waiting period in our state. It's hurting gun buyers, and it's hurting gun dealers.
 

peter nap

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You seemed perturbed with Mike, but you're helping him make his point.

You say that "the feds ... move more transaction quicker that is the bottom line." Yeah, that's the bottom line. The state gov't can't run a check system. The VA system is broken. The Fed system works.

I want my purchases from FFLs to be w/o a check (that would be in line with the Constitution), but until that day arrives, I'd rather go through the system that takes minutes rather than the one that takes days. I say, lay off some dead weight in Richmond and go with the Fed system.

It seems the legislature now wants to try to fix the VA system with $400K. I hope that fixes it. If not, we'll be back in the same place next year, looking for a system that actually functions.

People I respect (e.g. Peter Nap) are against the shift to the Fed system. I'm remaining open to their reasoning, and trying to see their perspective, but I'm not convinced why we should stick with a broken system that has effectively instituted a multi-day waiting period in our state. It's hurting gun buyers, and it's hurting gun dealers.

Mark, my reasoning isn't all that clear, nor do I expect everyone to agree with it. This is more in line with Thundar and Wylde:lol:

I don't like giving any new powers (read that information) to the Federal Government. With Homeland Security tightening the noose every day and the Obama Administration looking for any nick in our armor, it's simply suicidal.

Even though I don't like the idea of the State Stepping aside (they are still in the game though) I want to take the most painless beating possible.

Can anyone explain to me what this bill which I consider the very bottom of the barrel, has that Gilbert.s Bill doesn't?

Now to follow that reasoning, you have to also accept the idea that we have some serious problems in this country that aren't going away unless we make them go away.

If not being inconvenienced is more important to people than leaving a free country to our Children and Grand Children, we really don't need to debate it because we're too far apart.

Now for those that think that's radical thinking...it probably is but it's based on experience. I have a brother in law, nice fellow but doesn't have a grain of sense.
He was in favor of the Assault Weapons Ban. He fell for the safe streets gibberish. I gave him about the same speech I just made and he said:

Oh it won't hurt me. All I have is my model 1100.

He changed his tune when the Feds started making noises like his 1100 might be a Devil Gun too.

It was too late then and look at how long and how hard we had to fight to make it go away.
 
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mk4

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I don't like giving any new powers (read that information) to the Federal Government. With Homeland Security tightening the noose every day and the Obama Administration looking for any nick in our armor, it's simply suicidal.

this!
most definitely!
 

Mike

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Mike I'm sorry you can't understand that Va just doesn't have the people to do the work. The feds have more than enough and thats why they move more transaction quicker that is the bottom line. The systems run the same, for you to say they dont well maybe study up a bit and you will learn more of what you speak.

Well if they don;t have the people to do the work, the system needs to be shut down. This is a waste of taxpayer money.

NICS is free and generally faster than V-Check.
 

peter nap

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Well if they don;t have the people to do the work, the system needs to be shut down. This is a waste of taxpayer money.

NICS is free and generally faster than V-Check.

Mike, I hate to break the news to you but the Feds don't get their money from selling muskrat hides on the black market:lol:
 

Mike

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Mike, I hate to break the news to you but the Feds don't get their money from selling muskrat hides on the black market:lol:

True, but the cost of NICS is fixed - all POC states must check NICS already so if VA moves to NICS there should be no, or at least no significant, extra demand on the federal government's fixed work force.
 

tkd2006

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True, but the cost of NICS is fixed - all POC states must check NICS already so if VA moves to NICS there should be no, or at least no significant, extra demand on the federal government's fixed work force.

how do you figure this, right snow Va does all the work if you remove Va and let the feds do the job they will have to hire people to do the work. You say no extra demand right now the feds do nothing as far as Va is concerned but make sure the NICS server is up and running the state employees do all the work. One more thing to add here the feds did leave a way for them to charge a fee for this service it just hasn't been done yet.

Let me point out how and why on the fee. Who here remembers all the local video stores in your area. Do you remember Blockbuster and Netflix came in with the no late fees and pay 8.00 and rent all you want. How many local video stores are there out there now and now much can they (the remaining stores ie Blockbuster/Netflix ) charge. Once all the state give the firearm rights over to the feds they will be able to charge what they want and you will have to fall in line like the rest of the drones.
 

Mike

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Once all the state give the firearm rights over to the feds they will be able to charge what they want and you will have to fall in line like the rest of the drones.

Congress does not allow the ATF or any other federal agency to charge for NICS.

That's a major complaint against V-Check - the $2 and $5 fees to buy a gun.

That's why we got some bills to eliminate these fees.
 

peter nap

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Congress does not allow the ATF or any other federal agency to charge for NICS.

That's a major complaint against V-Check - the $2 and $5 fees to buy a gun.

That's why we got some bills to eliminate these fees.

Careful with that "WE" word Mike....especially since "Your" Flagship Fed Bill is pushing up Petunias!
 

67GT390FB

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Congress does not allow the ATF or any other federal agency to charge for NICS.

That's a major complaint against V-Check - the $2 and $5 fees to buy a gun.

That's why we got some bills to eliminate these fees.

look the VA system has worked fine for years until somebody at VSP decided to divert funds from the background check staff to elswhere probably Peters shiny new whistles. Instead of writing a useless bill to turn control directly over to the feds why not spend your time writing a bill to require the background fee funds to go directly to the VSP's budget for background checks instead of a non specified account.
 
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